dB indicator flashing red

[PhilP]

Err... what does it mean if the 'dB' indicator on the display flashes red when I'm playing music?

 Does it mean that I need a more powerful amp 

[Confused]

Was this using the LP12? This sounds like an issue with cartridge settings, you could try increasing the cartridge max output setting. (It is clipping the input signal). If it was with a digital source, then I have no idea!

[PhilP]

Was this using the LP12?  This sounds like an issue with cartridge settings, you could try increasing the cartridge max output setting. (It is clipping the input signal).  If it was with a digital source, then I have no idea!

The source was a 16/44.1 AIFF file played via iTunes/Ethernet AIR which is why I wondered whether it was to do with output power rather than input level. 'dB' flashed briefly on a few peaks. I checked the level screen on the display and it was solidly in the red.

If anyone wants to try it the track was Knife Party - Bonfire

[Morten]

Hello PhilP

I have only seen this once on my 200--it was during with noise--also running AIR...


Kind regards Morten

[f1eng]

It is the clipping indicator. I think it may flash at 1 bit below full modulation.The track you were playing was probably one of the (appalling badly recorded IMHO) modern tracks where the signal is hammering up against the limiter.
Worth looking at the level meter page on the display and see if it is getting to clipping.
I do not consider any recording which spends much time "in the red" to be much good SQ wise, personally.
HiFi it ain't.

[Jean-Marie]

Was this using the LP12?  This sounds like an issue with cartridge settings, you could try increasing the cartridge max output setting. (It is clipping the input signal).  If it was with a digital source, then I have no idea!

The source was a 16/44.1 AIFF file played via iTunes/Ethernet AIR which is why I wondered whether it was to do with output power rather than input level. 'dB' flashed briefly on a few peaks. I checked the level screen on the display and it was solidly in the red.

If anyone wants to try it the track was Knife Party - Bonfire

do you remember what was the volume you were listening at?

If you were listening above 0 dB, then when the signal + Amplification exceeds 0 dBFS, I believe a soft compression is put in place and the dB symbol turns red.

For example is you are listening at +3 dB, this would occur when the actual signal approaches and exceed -3 dB. Of course, as long as you are listening at 0 dB or less, no such thing occurs.

My two cents,

Jean-Marie

[PhilP]

do you remember what was the volume you were listening at?

If you were listening above 0 dB, then when the signal + Amplification exceeds 0 dBFS, I believe a soft compression is put in place and the dB symbol turns red.

For example is you are listening at +3 dB, this would occur when the actual signal approaches and exceed -3 dB. Of course, as long as you are listening at 0 dB or less, no such thing occurs.

My two cents,

Jean-Marie

Hi, Jean-Marie,

The indicated volume was around -10 dB and the system was playing loud but not very loud...

[PhilP]

It is the clipping indicator. I think it may flash at 1 bit below full modulation.The track you were playing was probably one of the (appalling badly recorded IMHO) modern tracks where the signal is hammering up against the limiter.
Worth looking at the level meter page on the display and see if it is getting to clipping.
I do not consider any recording which spends much time "in the red" to be much good SQ wise, personally.
HiFi it ain't.

Do you mean input clipping? I'm surprised that ethernet AIR would pass a signal to the amp that would cause clipping? The level meter on the louder passages of that track is permanently in the red.

I certainly agree with your comments about the bad mastering of many modern recordings.

[Confused]

I have a copy of Knife Party - Bonfire. Unfortunately this is on a Ministry of Sound compilation, which is mixed. So my version my well be different to @PhilP's, assuming he has the album version. Anyway, I gave it a try this morning. The meters on the Devialet were more or less permanently in the top orange / red zone, but no sign of the orange clipping light on the iPad app. I tried this both via iTunes and JRiver WASAPI, from a PC. For what it's worth, the sound quality was ok (although obviously could be a lot better if not compressed to death), I have heard worse.

I also tried the Album and EP version from Spotify, with more or less the same result. With each of these trials, I could not push the volume anything above about -10dB, at which point is was crushingly loud! Although this was with a D800. A little off topic, but the album version is miles better than the section they crammed onto the Ministry of Sound CD!

[PhilP]

I have a copy of Knife Party - Bonfire.  Unfortunately this is on a Ministry of Sound compilation, which is mixed.  So my version my well be different to @PhilP's, assuming he has the album version.  Anyway, I gave it a try this morning.  The meters on the Devialet were more or less permanently in the top orange / red zone, but no sign of the orange clipping light on the iPad app.  I tried this both via iTunes and JRiver WASAPI, from a PC.  For what it's worth, the sound quality was ok (although obviously could be a lot better if not compressed to death), I have heard worse.

I also tried the Album and EP version from Spotify, with more or less the same result.  With each of these trials, I could not push the volume anything above about -10dB, at which point is was crushingly loud!  Although this was with a D800.  A little off topic, but the album version is miles better than the section they crammed onto the Ministry of Sound CD!

The version I have is from the Rage Valley EP bought and downloaded from Qobuz.  As you say, the sound quality is really not bad.  I've tried to find a vinyl version  to see if the dynamic range is better but don't think they've released one.

Interestingly, I tried streaming the same track from Qobuz (16 bit FLAC lossless) also via ethernet AIR and the indicator didn't flash...

Re. 'crushingly loud' - as well as your amp being a lot more powerful maybe your speakers are more sensitive than mine and/or my ears are less sensitive than yours