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Kef Reference 3 + Devialet 200
#1
Anybody has experience with this setup?
Going to buy a new setup soon, but the D400 is not really on my list because it's 12900 euros.

Will the D200 be able to drive the Kef Reference 3 properly?
I heard the D120 with the Kef Reference 1 and it was phenomenal!
Even though the Ref 1 sound impressive (very) I'm looking for that bottom octave it can't deliver therefore the Ref 3 would be ideal.

Thanks! Angel
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#2
The D200 has truck-loads of power. For most electrodynamic speakers in normal-sized rooms it will be more than adequate. Check out Clive's system: he's driving huge B&Ws with a D200 in a large room.

http://devialetchat.com/Thread-Clive-s-sistym

Matt

Sonos Connect (W4S) > DSpeaker Antimode 2.0 > Sanders Magtech > Martin Logan Montis
Sonos Connect (W4S) > Devialet 200 > Vivid V1.5
Silver Phantoms (just the two)
London
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#3
(18-Feb-2015, 22:54)stijjgv Wrote: Anybody has experience with this setup?
Going to buy a new setup soon, but the D400 is not really on my list because it's 12900 euros.

Will the D200 be able to drive the Kef Reference 3 properly?
I heard the D120 with the Kef Reference 1 and it was phenomenal!
Even though the Ref 1 sound impressive (very) I'm looking for that bottom octave it can't deliver therefore the Ref 3 would be ideal.

Thanks! Angel

Did you hear the KEF Reference 1 with or without SAM enabled? With SAM it is supposed to go down into the 20s
(I am considering the Ref 1 for my D250)
QNAP TS219P II/ TIDAL-Hifi > Roon@mac-mini > AIR3-Cat6 > Devialet 250 > Audience AU24 SE > Gallo-3.5Ref (w/ SAM)
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#4
KEF 203/2 (out gone model), got very good deal on new Piano Black. Ordered Devialet 120, to receive today.
Rock OS (Roon) on NUC 2016 Model (ETH Wired to Router) > Cat8 from Router to switch to 220Pro (CI) > RAAT/AIR > Monitor Audio PL300 II
Ipad Mini 4/iPhone for Roon Remote"
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#5
(19-Feb-2015, 07:33)Borgen Wrote:
(18-Feb-2015, 22:54)stijjgv Wrote: Anybody has experience with this setup?
Going to buy a new setup soon, but the D400 is not really on my list because it's 12900 euros.

Will the D200 be able to drive the Kef Reference 3 properly?
I heard the D120 with the Kef Reference 1 and it was phenomenal!
Even though the Ref 1 sound impressive (very) I'm looking for that bottom octave it can't deliver therefore the Ref 3 would be ideal.

Thanks! Angel

Did you hear the KEF Reference 1 with or without SAM enabled? With SAM it is supposed to go down into the 20s
(I am considering the Ref 1 for my D250)

I did hear the Ref 1 with SAM and without SAM. I did make a pleasing (not huge) improvement in the bass area.
The high and mid presentation was to my ears the same.
You have to keep in mind that (according to their site) Devialet says the Ref 1 would go as low as 23 hertz.
From what I've learned that may be correct when you measure it with super high tech equipment and you have an optimal room.
It wil not go as low as 23 hertz for your ears and body. I played the same track (angel by massive attack) and even though it
went deeper with SAM enabled, it most definitely did not reach 23 hertz.
So to get such a low bass response you still need a speaker with a large cabinet, no matter how much clever software
based engineering people can make you still need a physical large speaker to deliver the REAL frequencies.

Now you may think "but what about Devialet's Phanthom? They are small and go deep in bass"
Yes you are right and you're not. They do go deep in bass for their size. So maybe you think that all the things
I said about a speaker needing to have a large cabinet to deliver those frequencies is not true. Well they do get
absurdly low in bass and they may go as deep as a LARGE floorstander ON PAPER, your ears may tell you they almost do.
But your body doesn't not feel that way. I can't really describe it but their is no way the Phantom's can give you the same
impact a large (good) floorstander can. They are not meant to. In my opinion they are made to blow the hell out of some
mainstream easy to use brands like sonos and bose, or whatever you have on the market. They are by no means a
competition for real high end speakers.

Big Grin
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#6
(19-Feb-2015, 13:55)stijjgv Wrote:
(19-Feb-2015, 07:33)Borgen Wrote:
(18-Feb-2015, 22:54)stijjgv Wrote: Anybody has experience with this setup?
Going to buy a new setup soon, but the D400 is not really on my list because it's 12900 euros.

Will the D200 be able to drive the Kef Reference 3 properly?
I heard the D120 with the Kef Reference 1 and it was phenomenal!
Even though the Ref 1 sound impressive (very) I'm looking for that bottom octave it can't deliver therefore the Ref 3 would be ideal.

Thanks! Angel

Did you hear the KEF Reference 1 with or without SAM enabled? With SAM it is supposed to go down into the 20s
(I am considering the Ref 1 for my D250)

I did hear the Ref 1 with SAM and without SAM. I did make a pleasing (not huge) improvement in the bass area.
The high and mid presentation was to my ears the same.
You have to keep in mind that (according to their site) Devialet says the Ref 1 would go as low as 23 hertz.
From what I've learned that may be correct when you measure it with super high tech equipment and you have an optimal room.
It wil not go as low as 23 hertz for your ears and body. I played the same track (angel by massive attack) and even though it
went deeper with SAM enabled, it most definitely did not reach 23 hertz.
So to get such a low bass response you still need a speaker with a large cabinet, no matter how much clever software
based engineering people can make you still need a physical large speaker to deliver the REAL frequencies.

Now you may think "but what about Devialet's Phanthom? They are small and go deep in bass"
Yes you are right and you're not. They do go deep in bass for their size. So maybe you think that all the things
I said about a speaker needing to have a large cabinet to deliver those frequencies is not true. Well they do get
absurdly low in bass and they may go as deep as a LARGE floorstander ON PAPER, your ears may tell you they almost do.
But your body doesn't not feel that way. I can't really describe it but their is no way the Phantom's can give you the same
impact a large (good) floorstander can. They are not meant to. In my opinion they are made to blow the hell out of some
mainstream easy to use brands like sonos and bose, or whatever you have their on the market. They are by no means a
competition for real high end speakers.

Big Grin

Thanks for the elaborate answer.
QNAP TS219P II/ TIDAL-Hifi > Roon@mac-mini > AIR3-Cat6 > Devialet 250 > Audience AU24 SE > Gallo-3.5Ref (w/ SAM)
Reply
#7
(19-Feb-2015, 13:55)stijjgv Wrote:
(19-Feb-2015, 07:33)Borgen Wrote:
(18-Feb-2015, 22:54)stijjgv Wrote: Anybody has experience with this setup?
Going to buy a new setup soon, but the D400 is not really on my list because it's 12900 euros.

Will the D200 be able to drive the Kef Reference 3 properly?
I heard the D120 with the Kef Reference 1 and it was phenomenal!
Even though the Ref 1 sound impressive (very) I'm looking for that bottom octave it can't deliver therefore the Ref 3 would be ideal.

Thanks! Angel

Did you hear the KEF Reference 1 with or without SAM enabled? With SAM it is supposed to go down into the 20s
(I am considering the Ref 1 for my D250)

I did hear the Ref 1 with SAM and without SAM. I did make a pleasing (not huge) improvement in the bass area.
The high and mid presentation was to my ears the same.
You have to keep in mind that (according to their site) Devialet says the Ref 1 would go as low as 23 hertz.
From what I've learned that may be correct when you measure it with super high tech equipment and you have an optimal room.
It wil not go as low as 23 hertz for your ears and body. I played the same track (angel by massive attack) and even though it
went deeper with SAM enabled, it most definitely did not reach 23 hertz.
So to get such a low bass response you still need a speaker with a large cabinet, no matter how much clever software
based engineering people can make you still need a physical large speaker to deliver the REAL frequencies.

Now you may think "but what about Devialet's Phanthom? They are small and go deep in bass"
Yes you are right and you're not. They do go deep in bass for their size. So maybe you think that all the things
I said about a speaker needing to have a large cabinet to deliver those frequencies is not true. Well they do get
absurdly low in bass and they may go as deep as a LARGE floorstander ON PAPER, your ears may tell you they almost do.
But your body doesn't not feel that way. I can't really describe it but their is no way the Phantom's can give you the same
impact a large (good) floorstander can. They are not meant to. In my opinion they are made to blow the hell out of some
mainstream easy to use brands like sonos and bose, or whatever you have on the market. They are by no means a
competition for real high end speakers.

Big Grin
What you have written here makes no sense whatsoever I am afraid.
Not credible at all. Breaking the laws of physics.
Devialet Original d'Atelier 44 Core, Job Pre/225, Goldmund PH2, Goldmund Reference/T3f /Ortofon A90, Goldmund Mimesis 36+ & Chord Blu, iMac/Air, Lynx Theta, Tune Audio Anima, Goldmund Epilog 1&2, REL Studio. Dialog, Silver Phantoms, Branch stands, copper cables (mainly).
Oxfordshire

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#8
(19-Feb-2015, 18:35)f1eng Wrote:
(19-Feb-2015, 13:55)stijjgv Wrote:
(19-Feb-2015, 07:33)Borgen Wrote:
(18-Feb-2015, 22:54)stijjgv Wrote: Anybody has experience with this setup?
Going to buy a new setup soon, but the D400 is not really on my list because it's 12900 euros.

Will the D200 be able to drive the Kef Reference 3 properly?
I heard the D120 with the Kef Reference 1 and it was phenomenal!
Even though the Ref 1 sound impressive (very) I'm looking for that bottom octave it can't deliver therefore the Ref 3 would be ideal.

Thanks! Angel

Did you hear the KEF Reference 1 with or without SAM enabled? With SAM it is supposed to go down into the 20s
(I am considering the Ref 1 for my D250)

I did hear the Ref 1 with SAM and without SAM. I did make a pleasing (not huge) improvement in the bass area.
The high and mid presentation was to my ears the same.
You have to keep in mind that (according to their site) Devialet says the Ref 1 would go as low as 23 hertz.
From what I've learned that may be correct when you measure it with super high tech equipment and you have an optimal room.
It wil not go as low as 23 hertz for your ears and body. I played the same track (angel by massive attack) and even though it
went deeper with SAM enabled, it most definitely did not reach 23 hertz.
So to get such a low bass response you still need a speaker with a large cabinet, no matter how much clever software
based engineering people can make you still need a physical large speaker to deliver the REAL frequencies.

Now you may think "but what about Devialet's Phanthom? They are small and go deep in bass"
Yes you are right and you're not. They do go deep in bass for their size. So maybe you think that all the things
I said about a speaker needing to have a large cabinet to deliver those frequencies is not true. Well they do get
absurdly low in bass and they may go as deep as a LARGE floorstander ON PAPER, your ears may tell you they almost do.
But your body doesn't not feel that way. I can't really describe it but their is no way the Phantom's can give you the same
impact a large (good) floorstander can. They are not meant to. In my opinion they are made to blow the hell out of some
mainstream easy to use brands like sonos and bose, or whatever you have on the market. They are by no means a
competition for real high end speakers.

Big Grin
What you have written here makes no sense whatsoever I am afraid.
Not credible at all. Breaking the laws of physics.

Then enlighten me my friend Smile
All I'm trying to say is that small speakers can't go that low in frequency then large speakers cause of their cabinet size and or drivers.
Like I said the Phantom goes low for its size and on paper is goes lower then some large floorstanders. It can give you the illusion of going
very low but put a big high end speaker beside it and it will be night and day. Software tweaks and engineering don't change the physical size of the speaker it can help but it's still limited.

So what you mean is that because I am saying small speakers can sound impressive but can't deliver those bottom octaves like larger speakers can
I'm telling things that aren't true and it's not credible. That's what I call a contradiction.
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#9
(19-Feb-2015, 19:13)stijjgv Wrote: Then enlighten me my friend Smile
All I'm trying to say is that small speakers can't go that low in frequency then large speakers cause of their cabinet size and or drivers.
Like I said the Phantom goes low for its size and on paper is goes lower then some large floorstanders. It can give you the illusion of going
very low but put a big high end speaker beside it and it will be night and day. Software tweaks and engineering don't change the physical size of the speaker it can help but it's still limited.

So what you mean is that because I am saying small speakers can sound impressive but can't deliver those bottom octaves like larger speakers can
I'm telling things that aren't true and it's not credible. That's what I call a contradiction.

Sound is pressure fluctuation. If the pressure fluctuation is there the sound is.
Yes, using crude engineering the only way to get low frequencies is a big driver in a big box, or if efficiency isn't an issue, a heavy driver in a smaller box.
Using modern technology, and Devialet are not the only people doing this, though their method is unique to them, it is possible to measure the transfer function of any box/driver combination and use that data to produce whatever frequency response you want.
Yes the maximum loudness will be limited by the size and travel of the bass units and the available power. That is all. The distortion can be compensated for.

So if the Phantom has a -6dB point of 20Hz it will have as much bass (probably better because of less distortion) as a 15" unit in a big cabinet if that has a -6dB point at 20Hz (most won't actually they will have less bass than the Phantom)

The pressure fluctuations that exist which can be felt must be exactly the same whether produced by a big box or a small if the level and frequency are the same.
It is absolutely impossible for this not to be the case.
Those little air molecules whizzing back and forth to produce the pressure fluctuations at your body haven't got a clue as to whether their mates back near the speaker are being pushed back and forth by a big driver or a small one.
Philips did this decades ago, it is not new.
You are not the first person I have seen on internet forums who is finding this hard to understand though!
Devialet Original d'Atelier 44 Core, Job Pre/225, Goldmund PH2, Goldmund Reference/T3f /Ortofon A90, Goldmund Mimesis 36+ & Chord Blu, iMac/Air, Lynx Theta, Tune Audio Anima, Goldmund Epilog 1&2, REL Studio. Dialog, Silver Phantoms, Branch stands, copper cables (mainly).
Oxfordshire

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#10
(19-Feb-2015, 20:07)f1eng Wrote:
(19-Feb-2015, 19:13)stijjgv Wrote: Then enlighten me my friend Smile
All I'm trying to say is that small speakers can't go that low in frequency then large speakers cause of their cabinet size and or drivers.
Like I said the Phantom goes low for its size and on paper is goes lower then some large floorstanders. It can give you the illusion of going
very low but put a big high end speaker beside it and it will be night and day. Software tweaks and engineering don't change the physical size of the speaker it can help but it's still limited.

So what you mean is that because I am saying small speakers can sound impressive but can't deliver those bottom octaves like larger speakers can
I'm telling things that aren't true and it's not credible. That's what I call a contradiction.

Sound is pressure fluctuation. If the pressure fluctuation is there the sound is.
Yes, using crude engineering the only way to get low frequencies is a big driver in a big box, or if efficiency isn't an issue, a heavy driver in a smaller box.
Using modern technology, and Devialet are not the only people doing this, though their method is unique to them, it is possible to measure the transfer function of any box/driver combination and use that data to produce whatever frequency response you want.
Yes the maximum loudness will be limited by the size and travel of the bass units and the available power. That is all. The distortion can be compensated for.

So if the Phantom has a -6dB point of 20Hz it will have as much bass (probably better because of less distortion) as a 15" unit in a big cabinet if that has a -6dB point at 20Hz (most won't actually they will have less bass than the Phantom)

The pressure fluctuations that exist which can be felt must be exactly the same whether produced by a big box or a small if the level and frequency are the same.
It is absolutely impossible for this not to be the case.
Those little air molecules whizzing back and forth to produce the pressure fluctuations at your body haven't got a clue as to whether their mates back near the speaker are being pushed back and forth by a big driver or a small one.
Philips did this decades ago, it is not new.
You are not the first person I have seen on internet forums who is finding this hard to understand though!

That sound interesting but if I understand you correctly.
This would mean that for example the Kef Ref 1 goes with SAM to 23hz, the Ref 3 go to +- 21hz with SAM.
So if what you are saying is correct then at a normal or little more then normal listening lvl's there won't be any difference between the Ref 1 & 3?
So why even bother making/buying the Ref 3 or even the Ref 5.

So for example in the same room the Kef reference 5 (short tube) won't go as deep in bass as the Harbeth P3ESR both with SAM enabled

http://en.devialet.com/speakers/kef/kef-...short-port
http://en.devialet.com/speakers/harbeth/harbeth-p3esr
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