SAM and its troubles

[Mohmm]

I like the idea that Devialet encapsulates in their acronym SAM. But that also makes me doubt their optimism as there are thousands or so of loudspeaker makers and of loudspeakers out there. Even if we count only the more exacting speakers likely to be used by Dev. owners, the numbers will go into the hundreds. Given this situation I am very skeptical about Devialet's capability to make SAM available for all of them. But then, if some of us are being left out from the SAMed community, what value is in Devialet's promise?

I, for example use a relatively uncommon speaker that isn't even listed in the list of brands on their SAM website.

Hence, I suggest a poll of our subjective impression if and when SAM parameters will be available for your speaker in your listening room/home. Please estimate how far in the future, if at all, you expect Devialet to make SAM available for your brand and type of speaker.

[Eddye]

I own 805D speakers, so SAM already exists for my speaker. I think, for my speakers, it's a big inprovement. Of course, it was pure luck to have the SAM upgrade at once.

[Jwg1749]

I don't expect SAM to be available for my speakers, and it wouldn't make any difference anyway, as they have active subs and no crossovers.
Matt

[Mohmm]

I don't expect SAM to be available for my speakers, and it wouldn't make any difference anyway, as they have active subs and no crossovers.
Matt

Thanks, having active speakers, of course, exempts you from the SAM "promise". I should have pointed out that active speakers should not be considered in the poll.

[beerman]

Hi,

Kef LS50 were one of the first speakers got SAMed by Devialet, and whoever heard the combination knows why Devialet had chosen to do this.
Actually, the LS50 benefits from SAM: I noticed expanded bass, wider soundstage and transparency. Improved Dynamics. If you have a suitable room, this could be the end of a journey.
Unfortunately I have some room modes, when I play the Kefs solo.
So I configured a high-pass at 70 hz, 2.Order for the Kefs (unfortunately you can't do that with SAM) and configured the Devialet's mono subwoofer output full frequency range into the DSpeaker Antimode 8033IIs for room correction and then to my Linn Melodik subwoofer with a intern lowpass of 79 hz.
I chose this configuration because of measurements and listening tests.
This relieves the Kefs from the deeper bass frequencies, what has a very good effect on music reproduction. I think this is a result of the smaller movements of the LS50's loudspeaker diaphragm.

   
Kef LS50 with SAM

   
Kef LS50 with dsp-corrected subwoofer (no SAM)

The measurements are with 1/24 Octave resolution.

[Mohmm]

Hi,

Kef LS50 were one of the first speakers got SAMed by Devialet, and whoever heard the combination knows why Devialet had chosen to do this.
Actually, the LS50 benefits from SAM: I noticed expanded bass, wider soundstage and transparency. Improved Dynamics. If you have a suitable room, this could be the end of a journey.
Unfortunately I have some room modes, when I play the Kefs solo.
So I configured a high-pass at 70 hz, 2.Order for the Kefs (unfortunately you can't do that with SAM) and configured the Devialet's mono subwoofer output full frequency range into the DSpeaker Antimode 8033IIs for room correction and then to my Linn Melodic subwoofer with a intern lowpass of 79 hz.
I chose this configuration because of measurements and listening tests.
This relieves the Kefs from the deeper bass frequencies, what has a very good effect on music reproduction. I think this is a result of the smaller movements of the LS50's loudspeaker diaphragm.


Kef LS50 with SAM


Kef LS50 with dap-corrected subwoofer (no SAM)

The measurements are with 1/24 Octave resolution.

Beerman: that's an interesting comparative graph even though they cannot be directly compared. First, they confirm that SAM is (of course) not about room correction (this idea pops up now and then) but impulse correction. Otherwise it should have eliminated the room modes at 40, 65, and 100Hz. The room correction that you use to tame your modes, however, acts on the non-SAMed speakers.

Do you think you could provide a measurement using SAM and the DRC simultaneously?

By the way, what measurements were these: Which microphone, which program, which distance or location of the microphone relative to the speakers?

[beerman]

Hi,

Kef LS50 were one of the first speakers got SAMed by Devialet, and whoever heard the combination knows why Devialet had chosen to do this.
Actually, the LS50 benefits from SAM: I noticed expanded bass, wider soundstage and transparency. Improved Dynamics. If you have a suitable room, this could be the end of a journey.
Unfortunately I have some room modes, when I play the Kefs solo.
So I configured a high-pass at 70 hz, 2.Order for the Kefs (unfortunately you can't do that with SAM) and configured the Devialet's mono subwoofer output full frequency range into the DSpeaker Antimode 8033IIs for room correction and then to my Linn Melodic subwoofer with a intern lowpass of 79 hz.
I chose this configuration because of measurements and listening tests.
This relieves the Kefs from the deeper bass frequencies, what has a very good effect on music reproduction. I think this is a result of the smaller movements of the LS50's loudspeaker diaphragm.


Kef LS50 with SAM


Kef LS50 with dap-corrected subwoofer (no SAM)

The measurements are with 1/24 Octave resolution.

Beerman: that's an interesting comparative graph even though they cannot be directly compared. First, they confirm that SAM is (of course) not about room correction (this idea pops up now and then) but impulse correction. Otherwise it should have eliminated the room modes at 40, 65, and 100Hz. The room correction that you use to tame your modes, however, acts on the non-SAMed speakers.

Do you think you could provide a measurement using SAM and the DRC simultaneously?

By the way, what measurements were these: Which microphone, which program, which distance or location of the microphone relative to the speakers?

Hi Mohmm,

I made the measurements with the Analyzer App for iPad. The Mic was a calibrated MicW i436. The measure point was where my head was in listening position. The distance to the speakers was ca. 3 meters.

Here is a measurement with active SAM plus dsp-corrected subwoofer:

   

[pete86]

Beerman,
Very interesting. Any chance you can take measurements with just the LS50, with and without SAM?

[Mohmm]

Well, that surprises me. Could it be that your DRC does not eliminate the room modes? There is virtually no difference between only SAM and SAM+DRC.... But perhaps, that has has to do with your use of a subwoofer.

Thanks anyway.

---

As a rejoinder: I am using Dirac on my non-SAMed speakers and there is a clear reduction in room resonances.

[beerman]

Well, that surprises me. Could it be that your DRC does not eliminate the room modes? There is virtually no difference between only SAM and SAM+DRC.... But perhaps, that has has to do with your use of a subwoofer.

Thanks anyway.

---

As a rejoinder: I am using Dirac on my non-SAMed speakers and there is a clear reduction in room resonances.

Hi Mohmm,

Well, you must not be surprised. As you stated, that has to do with my use of a subwoofer. My room correction is only active on the subwoofer. When I use SAM on my Kefs, I can not use the high pass of the Devialet (that is not possible in the configurator), so the bass of the Kefs sums up with the bass of the subwoofer and the room modes are there again.
So I prefer using the Kefs without SAM, but with a high pass at 70 hz/ 2. Order and let the corrected subwoofer do the low bass.
Dirac is no option for me, because it does not correct my vinyl source :-).

---

Beerman,
Very interesting. Any chance you can take measurements with just the LS50, with and without SAM?

Hi pete86,

I have measurements without SAM (first picture) and with SAM (second picture). The graphs doesn`t differ much, but it is clearly an audible difference between SAM/noSAM.

   
Kef LS50 without SAM

   
KefLS50 plus SAM

If I have to to choose I would clearly prefer Kef plus SAM by listening, if I have to listen without a subwoofer.
But as you can see there are room modes, so I prefer the combination with a dsp-corrected subwoofer. See the next picture:

   
Kef LS50 with dsp-corrected sub (no SAM)