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A few questions of Devialet 1, Dialogue and Multiple Device Input
#1
I am a headphone player and not quite familiar with speakers. Just bought 2 Devialet Gold and a Dialogue. I've used Devialet App to pair my 2 Devialet Gold and add Dialogue as well. My Dialogue's TOSLINK is connected to my TV.

I would like to buy another CD player or Turntable to connect to Devialet. However, the Dialogue only provide one TOSLINK connection.

I have a few questions below:

1. I am not quite sure the function of the Dialogue in my system. Actually, I can pair 2 Devialet Gold without connecting the Dialogue in my App. So what is it for?

2. I have read some thread in the forum and some people suggest to connect two Phantom Gold with Ethernet Cable to get better sound performance, is that necessary?

3. I would like to connect another Device to the system by TOSLINK, but the socket on Dialogue has already been occupied. Can I connect another source to my Devialet Gold Phantom and still get Stereo?

4. Apple has launched 24/96 HIRes format for apple music, it seems I can directly use the Airplay function of Devialet to play music. But I am not sure if the music played are in 24/96 format.

I appreciate if anyone can help me understand better of the system to maximise its performance. Thanks.
Reply
#2
Hi and welcome to DC!
Congratulations on your new speakers, they're amazing!

1. Your Dialog is just an optical input. When the Phantom was released back in 2015 you needed the Dialog for streaming and pairing speakers. After a software update in late 2019 the Dialog was obsolete but still can be used as an optical input.

2.
If you have dropouts, connection problems or similar, connecting your speakers with ethernet cables to your router will probably solve the problem. I can't hear any difference in sound between WiFi and ethernet, but YMMV.

3.
Each Phantom has an optical input hidden behind the power cable, just beside the ethernet input. The speakers will sort out stereo automagically. The toslink inputs only supports stereo, no surround.

4.
Neither AirPlay nor AirPlay 2 is capable of streaming high resolution material as far as I know. You'll need to use UPnP or Roon to stream high res files.
Living room: Kii Three/BXT with Control.
Den: Tannoy Precision 8 iDP with TS112 iDP subwoofer.
In the cupboard, waiting for a sibling: 1st gen. Phantom Silver running DOS1
My Phantom Voyage
Reply
#3
(01-Jul-2021, 17:32)ramos Wrote: I am a headphone player and not quite familiar with speakers. Just bought 2 Devialet Gold and a Dialogue. I've used Devialet App to pair my 2 Devialet Gold and add Dialogue as well. My Dialogue's TOSLINK is connected to my TV.

I would like to buy another CD player or Turntable to connect to Devialet. However, the Dialogue only provide one TOSLINK connection.

I have a few questions below:

1. I am not quite sure the function of the Dialogue in my system. Actually, I can pair 2 Devialet Gold without connecting the Dialogue in my App. So what is it for?

2. I have read some thread in the forum and some people suggest to connect two Phantom Gold with Ethernet Cable to get better sound performance, is that necessary?

3. I would like to connect another Device to the system by TOSLINK, but the socket on Dialogue has already been occupied. Can I connect another source to my Devialet Gold Phantom and still get Stereo?

4. Apple has launched 24/96 HIRes format for apple music, it seems I can directly use the Airplay function of Devialet to play music. But I am not sure if the music played are in 24/96 format.

I appreciate if anyone can help me understand better of the system to maximise its performance. Thanks.

I have a much older, but similar, layout.
Mine are old enough to be hardware incompatible with the latest firmware so I have to use the Dialog. I have my TV tuner connected to the dialog, my CD transport connected to one of the Phantom's optical inputs and my computer connected to the other.
I use Spark to control the system and it, with the original firmware (I have zero experience of V2, obviously), includes Qobuz so I use that for streaming.
A few years ago I did a very well controlled blind comparison between 16/44 and 24/96 and 24/192 versions of the same music file and I could not hear a difference so I haven't concerned myself considering higher resolution than 16/44 to be important (it doesn't surprise either since both the frequency and dynamic range of 16/44 exceeds the capacity of human hearing already, though there is a lot off incorrect bollox on the 'net about this)
I am still delighted by my Phantoms after 6 years though I don't like having to have an application running to adjust volume with my setup.
Devialet Original d'Atelier 44 Core, Job Pre/225, Goldmund PH2, Goldmund Reference/T3f /Ortofon A90, Goldmund Mimesis 36+ & Chord Blu, iMac/Air, Lynx Theta, Tune Audio Anima, Goldmund Epilog 1&2, REL Studio. Dialog, Silver Phantoms, Branch stands, copper cables (mainly).
Oxfordshire

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#4
(01-Jul-2021, 20:00)ragwo Wrote: Hi and welcome to DC!
Congratulations on your new speakers, they're amazing!

1. Your Dialog is just an optical input. When the Phantom was released back in 2015 you needed the Dialog for streaming and pairing speakers. After a software update in late 2019 the Dialog was obsolete but still can be used as an optical input.

2.
If you have dropouts, connection problems or similar, connecting your speakers with ethernet cables to your router will probably solve the problem. I can't hear any difference in sound between WiFi and ethernet, but YMMV.

3.
Each Phantom has an optical input hidden behind the power cable, just beside the ethernet input. The speakers will sort out stereo automagically. The toslink inputs only supports stereo, no surround.

4.
Neither AirPlay nor AirPlay 2 is capable of streaming high resolution material as far as I know. You'll need to use UPnP or Roon to stream high res files.

Hi Thanks very much for your reply! I have a few question in regards of your reply.

2. I've read some thread of the forum which says you can directly connect 2 phantom by ethernet cable to maximise the stability and performance. Have you tried that before? The physical distance between my two phantom gold is only 2 meter so I've not experienced any dropout or connection problems though.

4. The AipPlay 2 is capable to stream Hi-Res. My friend stream the high-res to an Apple TV and the Apple TV shows 24Bit/48, not sure about 96 or 192 though. However, I am not quite sure of the UPnP or Roon, would you please provide some details about them?

Kind regards

Ramos
Reply
#5
(02-Jul-2021, 09:10)f1eng Wrote:
(01-Jul-2021, 17:32)ramos Wrote: I am a headphone player and not quite familiar with speakers. Just bought 2 Devialet Gold and a Dialogue. I've used Devialet App to pair my 2 Devialet Gold and add Dialogue as well. My Dialogue's TOSLINK is connected to my TV.

I would like to buy another CD player or Turntable to connect to Devialet. However, the Dialogue only provide one TOSLINK connection.

I have a few questions below:

1. I am not quite sure the function of the Dialogue in my system. Actually, I can pair 2 Devialet Gold without connecting the Dialogue in my App. So what is it for?

2. I have read some thread in the forum and some people suggest to connect two Phantom Gold with Ethernet Cable to get better sound performance, is that necessary?

3. I would like to connect another Device to the system by TOSLINK, but the socket on Dialogue has already been occupied. Can I connect another source to my Devialet Gold Phantom and still get Stereo?

4. Apple has launched 24/96 HIRes format for apple music, it seems I can directly use the Airplay function of Devialet to play music. But I am not sure if the music played are in 24/96 format.

I appreciate if anyone can help me understand better of the system to maximise its performance. Thanks.

I have a much older, but similar, layout.
Mine are old enough to be hardware incompatible with the latest firmware so I have to use the Dialog. I have my TV tuner connected to the dialog, my CD transport connected to one of the Phantom's optical inputs and my computer connected to the other.
I use Spark to control the system and it, with the original firmware (I have zero experience of V2, obviously), includes Qobuz so I use that for streaming.
A few years ago I did a very well controlled blind comparison between 16/44 and 24/96 and 24/192 versions of the same music file and I could not hear a difference so I haven't concerned myself considering higher resolution than 16/44 to be important (it doesn't surprise either since both the frequency and dynamic range of 16/44 exceeds the capacity of human hearing already, though there is a lot off incorrect bollox on the 'net about this)
I am still delighted by my Phantoms after 6 years though I don't like having to have an application running to adjust volume with my setup.

Thanks very much for your reply. It seems that the spark does not work on my system. I have to use the latest Devialet App to control my system.

I will try to connect the CD Transport to my phantom and see how it goes.

Not sure if the Toslink can deliver Hi-Res streaming?
Reply
#6
(02-Jul-2021, 09:28)ramos Wrote:
(01-Jul-2021, 20:00)ragwo Wrote: Hi and welcome to DC!
Congratulations on your new speakers, they're amazing!

1. Your Dialog is just an optical input. When the Phantom was released back in 2015 you needed the Dialog for streaming and pairing speakers. After a software update in late 2019 the Dialog was obsolete but still can be used as an optical input.

2.
If you have dropouts, connection problems or similar, connecting your speakers with ethernet cables to your router will probably solve the problem. I can't hear any difference in sound between WiFi and ethernet, but YMMV.

3.
Each Phantom has an optical input hidden behind the power cable, just beside the ethernet input. The speakers will sort out stereo automagically. The toslink inputs only supports stereo, no surround.

4.
Neither AirPlay nor AirPlay 2 is capable of streaming high resolution material as far as I know. You'll need to use UPnP or Roon to stream high res files.

Hi Thanks very much for your reply! I have a few question in regards of your reply.

2. I've read some thread of the forum which says you can directly connect 2 phantom by ethernet cable to maximise the stability and performance. Have you tried that before? The physical distance between my two phantom gold is only 2 meter so I've not experienced any dropout or connection problems though.

4. The AipPlay 2 is capable to stream Hi-Res. My friend stream the high-res to an Apple TV and the Apple TV shows 24Bit/48, not sure about 96 or 192 though. However, I am not quite sure of the UPnP or Roon, would you please provide some details about them?

Kind regards

Ramos

Your welcome! 
2. The direct connection only works with Phantom Reactor/II. 

4. I found the information about AirPlay 2 and high res streaming here:
https://devialetchat.com/Thread-Apple-Music-Hi-res
The speakers downsample everything to 24/48 regardless input, so if AirPlay 2 is capable of 24/48 that's sufficient. 

You can find more information about Roon here:
https://roonlabs.com/

Here's info about Phantom and UPnP from the Devialet site 
https://help.devialet.com/hc/en-us/artic...xplanation

A Google search would provide you with a lot of information on UPnP.
Living room: Kii Three/BXT with Control.
Den: Tannoy Precision 8 iDP with TS112 iDP subwoofer.
In the cupboard, waiting for a sibling: 1st gen. Phantom Silver running DOS1
My Phantom Voyage
Reply
#7
Not sure if the Toslink can deliver Hi-Res streaming?

The spec is up to 24/96 but some receivers work at 24/192
My Devialet D-Premier optical input worked to 24/192 when I updated to model 800 it only went to 24/96 so a senior Devialet engineer kindly hand selected an optical input receiver which worked to 24/192 for me.
Subsequently I did my careful comparison which debunked the whole idea of bigger than 16/44 files in my opinion so I haven't bothered about whether my Original d'Atelier or my Phantom system goes above 24/96, completely pointless for me.
Devialet Original d'Atelier 44 Core, Job Pre/225, Goldmund PH2, Goldmund Reference/T3f /Ortofon A90, Goldmund Mimesis 36+ & Chord Blu, iMac/Air, Lynx Theta, Tune Audio Anima, Goldmund Epilog 1&2, REL Studio. Dialog, Silver Phantoms, Branch stands, copper cables (mainly).
Oxfordshire

Reply
#8
f1eng - if you happen to enjoy the floyd, may I suggest trying The Division Bell on Qobuz at 16/44 vs 24/96?

Especially the cymbals!

It certainly opened my ears - and I was a sceptic about hi-res.
1000 Pro / Magico A5 / REL Studio III
Reply
#9
(02-Jul-2021, 09:42)ramos Wrote:
(02-Jul-2021, 09:10)f1eng Wrote:
(01-Jul-2021, 17:32)ramos Wrote: I am a headphone player and not quite familiar with speakers. Just bought 2 Devialet Gold and a Dialogue. I've used Devialet App to pair my 2 Devialet Gold and add Dialogue as well. My Dialogue's TOSLINK is connected to my TV.

I would like to buy another CD player or Turntable to connect to Devialet. However, the Dialogue only provide one TOSLINK connection.

I have a few questions below:

1. I am not quite sure the function of the Dialogue in my system. Actually, I can pair 2 Devialet Gold without connecting the Dialogue in my App. So what is it for?

2. I have read some thread in the forum and some people suggest to connect two Phantom Gold with Ethernet Cable to get better sound performance, is that necessary?

3. I would like to connect another Device to the system by TOSLINK, but the socket on Dialogue has already been occupied. Can I connect another source to my Devialet Gold Phantom and still get Stereo?

4. Apple has launched 24/96 HIRes format for apple music, it seems I can directly use the Airplay function of Devialet to play music. But I am not sure if the music played are in 24/96 format.

I appreciate if anyone can help me understand better of the system to maximise its performance. Thanks.

I have a much older, but similar, layout.
Mine are old enough to be hardware incompatible with the latest firmware so I have to use the Dialog. I have my TV tuner connected to the dialog, my CD transport connected to one of the Phantom's optical inputs and my computer connected to the other.
I use Spark to control the system and it, with the original firmware (I have zero experience of V2, obviously), includes Qobuz so I use that for streaming.
A few years ago I did a very well controlled blind comparison between 16/44 and 24/96 and 24/192 versions of the same music file and I could not hear a difference so I haven't concerned myself considering higher resolution than 16/44 to be important (it doesn't surprise either since both the frequency and dynamic range of 16/44 exceeds the capacity of human hearing already, though there is a lot off incorrect bollox on the 'net about this)
I am still delighted by my Phantoms after 6 years though I don't like having to have an application running to adjust volume with my setup.

Thanks very much for your reply. It seems that the spark does not work on my system. I have to use the latest Devialet App to control my system.

I will try to connect the CD Transport to my phantom and see how it goes.

Not sure if the Toslink can deliver Hi-Res streaming?

(03-Jul-2021, 08:33)devianet Wrote: f1eng - if you happen to enjoy the floyd, may I suggest trying The Division Bell on Qobuz at 16/44 vs 24/96?

Especially the cymbals!

It certainly opened my ears - and I was a sceptic about hi-res.

There is no guarantee that the files are the same mix from Qobuz.
It wouldn't surprise me if there was a difference in the files, even if it is just a tiny level change like cable salesmen use to get people to spend lots of money on cables. After all they are selling it at a higher price so it makes sense to make the higher res files sound better.

What I did was take a high quality wide dynamic range 24/96 file of music I like (Eric Whitaker's Waternight album) an aquaintance of mine who worked for the BBC as a sound engineer downsampled this recording to 16/44.1 and then re- sampled it back to 24/96 again.
This achieves a control because both files will be using the same internal strategy in the DAC to decode the file - we don't know if a particular DAC handles different sample rate files similarly.
It means any music quieter than -96dB (more actually because of dithering) will have been removed from the second file and all frequencies greater than 22.05kHz also.
I did this years ago and nobody who compared the files back then heard a difference.

There have been plenty of other well controlled tests with the same results whereas all the ones that I know of claiming differences have been anecdotal.

I would imagine if a company like Qobuz with their marketing the way it is will make a high res file sound nicer (0.5 dB louder is enough).
It is one of the reasons I went back to CD. A CD manufacturer doesn't have a more expensive "product" to sell so will do their best with the CD.
I have become cynical in my old age.
Devialet Original d'Atelier 44 Core, Job Pre/225, Goldmund PH2, Goldmund Reference/T3f /Ortofon A90, Goldmund Mimesis 36+ & Chord Blu, iMac/Air, Lynx Theta, Tune Audio Anima, Goldmund Epilog 1&2, REL Studio. Dialog, Silver Phantoms, Branch stands, copper cables (mainly).
Oxfordshire

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#10
I had a listen to parts of that album - that's another composer on my "to explore further" list Smile

Putting aside the music for a moment (oh the curse of audiophilia!) and considering only the recorded sound; with the instrumentation - choral, orchestra, I found the differences much more subtle than, for example, with the closely-miked cymbals mentioned previously.

That said, the sharp consonant annunciations at the beginning of "When David Heard" are more "natural sounding" to my ears at least. Does the difference have any musical meaning? Probably not. This fits the pattern of everything I've experienced with hi-res. The differences can be very subtle, but, whatever the size of the difference, the hi-res is always the better of the two.

OTOH, "Equus" has quite a bit of high-pitched percussion, yet in that case I find I can't detect any difference. There's a lot going on in the orchestration there!

Same source track (Qobuz, 96x24), downsampled - or not - in BubbleUPnP server before reaching the D-Prem. Levels are the same compared this way.

Your methodology seems very sound and I can appreciate why it led to the conclusion it did. My early conclusion was the same, but I subsequently changed my mind after being surprised by that floyd album.
1000 Pro / Magico A5 / REL Studio III
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