Advice

[Gerronwithit]

Depends on whether you have £2,300, you want to invest it in Devialet snd whether you have given the 250 CI a good listen. It’s for you to tick your own boxes.

Not very helpful to be honest....

I started with the 250CI and was lucky enough to be able to upgrade to a 1000. My wife, for example, tolerates my interest in HiFi but is absolutely not a believer. However, when she heard the difference between the 250 and the 1000 even she was blown away. Everything is just bigger and better, the treble, the bass, the detail, the power but I paid a big premium for that. However, there are still aspects that you feel could be bettered when listening. Am still not sure it separates the detail in complex productions as well as it does solo work. However, am also not sure that TIDAL’s offerings are always top notch. All very subjective.

[winiar560]

I should not say it but the order of magnitude improvement you can make is: room treatment > changing your speakers > moving to a 250.

Jean-Marie

As of two nights ago I would put setting up your listening seat and speakers to work in the room you have as the first priority. 

I have what I would call a terrible room. When it was empty I could hear the echo of opening a window latch for 2.15 seconds repetitively. Now we have lots of furniture and wall decorations (some proper absorbing posters) it is still no where near an ideal room.

I've been playing with where I put my ears and speaker setup for as long as I've been in this room and two nights ago I hit the jackpot. It sounded so good, I was literally laughing out loud and astonished by what my little speakers were throwing towards me. There was even some thumping bass. I have never heard that from my Dynaudio C1's. I never expected it either because they are after all just small two way speakers.

For years I've been a big fan of Jim Smiths 'Get Better Sound'. It's a $35.- book that talks about setting up your listening seat and speakers and other bits and pieces. Jim can also be hired to do the work for you. From what I've read on forums so far the usual way it goes is like this; someone buys Jim's book and starts playing with set up. He then gets to a certain point of musical engagement and that's it. It's those who are looking for more who hire Jim to push their system up to the next level. It seems that whatever people have done to their system, Jim always seems to be able to push it up another notch. 

I think the other night was my first ever insight into how much better a system can sound when everything is in it's best spot. The sound you get when your system has been set up by the master of setting up. 

This all in a room that, even though it has some room treatment, would be identified as a poor sounding room by just about anyone on this forum.

So there you have it; Set up> Room treatment > Changing speakers > move to 250.

Never in my wildest dreams did I think set up could be so good that room treatment becomes less important.

Hi Pim 

1.Setup.It took me a while to get to the point ive started enjoying my listening and this happened once I acquired d200 then found the audio physics speakers are a lot better than my pmc ob1i at the time found virgo 5 I could afford and bought them.The virgo happened to make a significant improvement in bass in my room as they are down firing it worked.
Later on found the best suited speaker cables for my setup (atlas mavros) great synergy in my system.

2.This point is the most underrated by some people but the most important in my experience.
I've long waited but finally decided to get some treatment and bought a set of acoustic panels .Installed 2 behind me then first reflection points and some behind the speakers.
I would say this made the biggest improvement in my listening experience so far, ive started to clearly hear sounds never heard before,also every aspect of it got into its place.

The speaker positioning also hugely improved things especially the soundstage,clarity ,separation.

3.That was one of my point related to upgrade.
I'm not sure if my speakers are not the weak point here (quite unlikely but possible).
If I could earn more by just changing the speakers instead the amplifier.

4.As found to have a chance to get upgraded d-premier to 250 pro ci for well under 6k £ which I think is a great deal in my view as ive never seen one gone below 8k £ to be honest but then on the other hand I could get my d200 upgraded for 2100£  to 220 pro ci by Devialet France and not so sure the D 250 pro ci will make big difference considering my square 16m2 small listening space.

[Jean-Marie]

I should not say it but the order of magnitude improvement you can make is: room treatment > changing your speakers > moving to a 250.

Jean-Marie

As of two nights ago I would put setting up your listening seat and speakers to work in the room you have as the first priority. 

I have what I would call a terrible room. When it was empty I could hear the echo of opening a window latch for 2.15 seconds repetitively. Now we have lots of furniture and wall decorations (some proper absorbing posters) it is still no where near an ideal room.

I've been playing with where I put my ears and speaker setup for as long as I've been in this room and two nights ago I hit the jackpot. It sounded so good, I was literally laughing out loud and astonished by what my little speakers were throwing towards me. There was even some thumping bass. I have never heard that from my Dynaudio C1's. I never expected it either because they are after all just small two way speakers.

For years I've been a big fan of Jim Smiths 'Get Better Sound'. It's a $35.- book that talks about setting up your listening seat and speakers and other bits and pieces. Jim can also be hired to do the work for you. From what I've read on forums so far the usual way it goes is like this; someone buys Jim's book and starts playing with set up. He then gets to a certain point of musical engagement and that's it. It's those who are looking for more who hire Jim to push their system up to the next level. It seems that whatever people have done to their system, Jim always seems to be able to push it up another notch. 

I think the other night was my first ever insight into how much better a system can sound when everything is in it's best spot. The sound you get when your system has been set up by the master of setting up. 

This all in a room that, even though it has some room treatment, would be identified as a poor sounding room by just about anyone on this forum.

So there you have it; Set up> Room treatment > Changing speakers > move to 250.

Never in my wildest dreams did I think set up could be so good that room treatment becomes less important.

Yes you are right. I had hastily lumped together setup and treatment, but you are right, treatment comes only after you have a good setup. 

And a good setup can do wonders, especially by reducing the impact of the room if you are listening in near field or quasi near field. 

By the way, near field is a great solution if you have a difficult room that you cannot treat for any reason. 

So I’m not surprised that you came up with something really good. For most of us the place where the listening spot is cannot be moved arbitrarily in the room. 

Personally, I’m considering myself very lucky because was able to setup my living room taking into account my system with a high degree of priority. 

Jean-Marie

[Pim]

I should not say it but the order of magnitude improvement you can make is: room treatment > changing your speakers > moving to a 250.

Jean-Marie

As of two nights ago I would put setting up your listening seat and speakers to work in the room you have as the first priority. 

I have what I would call a terrible room. When it was empty I could hear the echo of opening a window latch for 2.15 seconds repetitively. Now we have lots of furniture and wall decorations (some proper absorbing posters) it is still no where near an ideal room.

I've been playing with where I put my ears and speaker setup for as long as I've been in this room and two nights ago I hit the jackpot. It sounded so good, I was literally laughing out loud and astonished by what my little speakers were throwing towards me. There was even some thumping bass. I have never heard that from my Dynaudio C1's. I never expected it either because they are after all just small two way speakers.

For years I've been a big fan of Jim Smiths 'Get Better Sound'. It's a $35.- book that talks about setting up your listening seat and speakers and other bits and pieces. Jim can also be hired to do the work for you. From what I've read on forums so far the usual way it goes is like this; someone buys Jim's book and starts playing with set up. He then gets to a certain point of musical engagement and that's it. It's those who are looking for more who hire Jim to push their system up to the next level. It seems that whatever people have done to their system, Jim always seems to be able to push it up another notch. 

I think the other night was my first ever insight into how much better a system can sound when everything is in it's best spot. The sound you get when your system has been set up by the master of setting up. 

This all in a room that, even though it has some room treatment, would be identified as a poor sounding room by just about anyone on this forum.

So there you have it; Set up> Room treatment > Changing speakers > move to 250.

Never in my wildest dreams did I think set up could be so good that room treatment becomes less important.

Yes you are right. I had hastily lumped together setup and treatment, but you are right, treatment comes only after you have a good setup. 

And a good setup can do wonders, especially by reducing the impact of the room if you are listening in near field or quasi near field. 

By the way, near field is a great solution if you have a difficult room that you cannot treat for any reason. 

So I’m not surprised that you came up with something really good. For most of us the place where the listening spot is cannot be moved arbitrarily in the room. 

Personally, I’m considering myself very lucky because was able to setup my living room taking into account my system with a high degree of priority. 

Jean-Marie

I have to say I never believed it was possible to take the room out altogether, but it seems it is.

[David A]

As of two nights ago I would put setting up your listening seat and speakers to work in the room you have as the first priority. 

…

So there you have it; Set up> Room treatment > Changing speakers > move to 250.

Never in my wildest dreams did I think set up could be so good that room treatment becomes less important.

Yes you are right. I had hastily lumped together setup and treatment, but you are right, treatment comes only after you have a good setup. 

And a good setup can do wonders, especially by reducing the impact of the room if you are listening in near field or quasi near field. 

By the way, near field is a great solution if you have a difficult room that you cannot treat for any reason. 

So I’m not surprised that you came up with something really good. For most of us the place where the listening spot is cannot be moved arbitrarily in the room. 

Personally, I’m considering myself very lucky because was able to setup my living room taking into account my system with a high degree of priority. 

Jean-Marie

Can I beg to differ, just slightly? :-)

I don't regard room setup as something different to room treatment, I regard it as the first and most important step in room treatment. What both address is the way sound behaves in the room and how and when it arrives at the listening position.

Most of the time when you see people talking about room modes (standing waves) and their relationship to room dimensions you could be forgiven for assuming that room dimensions determine not only the frequency but also the strength of the modes. While they certainly determine the frequency, the degree to which any given mode is activated is determined by speaker location. Once the degree of activation is set, the next determinant of the strength of the mode is the listening position. Room setup also affects the higher frequencies and the unmeasurables like soundstage and imaging.

What this means is that the acoustic behaviour of your untreated room is actually determined as much or more by your setup as it is by the room dimensions. A good setup means there's a lot less work to be done with room treatment while a bad setup means that even the best room treatment will never achieve the best result the room and system can deliver.

The takeaway from that is that if you can't afford or can't instal room treatment for some reason, good room setup is essential to getting the best result you can achieve in your untreated room. If you can afford and install room treatment then good room setup is esssential if you want to achieve the best result possible in your room. Room treatment can't repair all of the shortcomings caused by bad setup, it can only stick a bandaid over some of those shortcomings.

[ICUDoc]

By the way, near field is a great solution if you have a difficult room that you cannot treat 

I have found SAM to make near-field much better for my speakers
I think the time-/phase- alignment is much more important when you get up close

[Pim]

As of two nights ago I would put setting up your listening seat and speakers to work in the room you have as the first priority. 

…

So there you have it; Set up> Room treatment > Changing speakers > move to 250.

Never in my wildest dreams did I think set up could be so good that room treatment becomes less important.

Yes you are right. I had hastily lumped together setup and treatment, but you are right, treatment comes only after you have a good setup. 

And a good setup can do wonders, especially by reducing the impact of the room if you are listening in near field or quasi near field. 

By the way, near field is a great solution if you have a difficult room that you cannot treat for any reason. 

So I’m not surprised that you came up with something really good. For most of us the place where the listening spot is cannot be moved arbitrarily in the room. 

Personally, I’m considering myself very lucky because was able to setup my living room taking into account my system with a high degree of priority. 

Jean-Marie

Can I beg to differ, just slightly?  :-)

I don't regard room setup as something different to room treatment, I regard it as the first and most important step in room treatment. What both address is the way sound behaves in the room and how and when it arrives at the listening position.

Most of the time when you see people talking about room modes (standing waves) and their relationship to room dimensions you could be forgiven for assuming that room dimensions determine not only the frequency but also the strength of the modes. While they certainly determine the frequency, the degree to which any given mode is activated is determined by speaker location. Once the degree of activation is set, the next determinant of the strength of the mode is the listening position. Room setup also affects the higher frequencies and the unmeasurables like soundstage and imaging.

What this means is that the acoustic behaviour of your untreated room is actually determined as much or more by your setup as it is by the room dimensions. A good setup means there's a lot less work to be done with room treatment while a bad setup means that even the best room treatment will never achieve the best result the room and system can deliver.

The takeaway from that is that if you can't afford or can't instal room treatment for some reason, good room setup is essential to getting the best result you can achieve in your untreated room. If you can afford and install room treatment then good room setup is esssential if you want to achieve the best result possible in your room. Room treatment can't repair all of the shortcomings caused by bad setup, it can only stick a bandaid over some of those shortcomings.

Some good points there David. In short, the amp doesn't matter as much. Not a great conclusion since we're on DevialetChat 

[David A]

@Pim ,

I'm one of those people who believes that everything matters, even the amp :-)

Everything matters. You're not hearing the sound of the amp, or the source, or the speakers, or the room. You're hearing the sound that is created by the combination of all of them. Pick any one of them individually and you won't get any sound. Pick any 2 of them together and there's still no sound. If you put the right 3 of them together (amp, source, and speakers) you can get sound without a room but it won't sound as good as it can in a room and it will be damn uncomfortable listening in the rain or snow or a heatwave. Put all 4 together and you're really starting to get something, add good setup and you've got a lot more. Room treatment helps some more again. Everything matters and any single part of the chain isn't going to matter as much as it could matter if the rest of the chain isn't up to showing what that part can actually deliver.

Snce you mentioned Jim Smith's "Get Better Sound" in your earlier post and also in your signature, you may want to chase back in his QuarterNotes newsletters to Volume 2 Issue #1. The final item in that newsletter is called "Demystifiying Room Acoustic Treatment". It's something I wrote for Jim at his request after he saw some of my postings on room treatment on the Audio Asylum site many years ago. Even though I wrote it back in 2010 I'm still happy with it today as a basic overview.

[winiar560]

What would you choose d440 pro or d250 pro (upgraded from d-premier incl.full wartanty)? -they cost the same

[Pim]

What would you choose d440 pro or d250 pro (upgraded from d-premier incl.full wartanty)?  -they cost the same

The Pro does have some extras you will never get on the 440. Sweet Room being one of them. Your speaker certainly don't need the power. I'd go Pro and never look back.