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And already a SAM related problem...
#1
With SAM off, everything is fine on any playback method. With SAM on, I get clear, fairly loud, thumping noise in the system as it limits woofer excursion. It's especially audible during vinyl playback (I have a Michell Gyro SE turntable on Sound Anchors rack). And this is not even at loud volumes, just moderate listening. While playing vinyl it pretty much thumps every second or two throughout the entire record including the lead-in/out grooves. It does not do it if set to RIAA 1976, but it's loud and clear if set to RIAA 1953 or while using an external phono preamp.

It's not as audible during digital playback, but it's audibly there. However, if I go to YouTube and play a 20Hz tone, it starts thumping trying to limit the excursion starting at medium playback volume. You can visually see the cones move less during the audible thump. 

I would think that SAM's operation in limiting woofer excursion should be a little less audible and more seamless. I'm using Bowers & Wilkins speakers with correct SAM profile. 

Any suggestions on what I might be doing wrong? If this is normal, then SAM (even though it sounds amazing) is pretty much useless.
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#2
Sounds like a warp frequency problem, that can produce low frequencys at high level, ensure your arm and cartridge are correct and compatible. 1973 will filter this out, if it does not sound bass light use it till you work out what's wrong.
Roon, Rega P9 + Dynavector XX2Mk2 > 440 Pro > Sonus Faber Guarneri Evolution
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#3
(07-Nov-2017, 23:02)Soniclife Wrote: Sounds like a warp frequency problem, that can produce low frequencys at high level, ensure your arm and cartridge are correct and compatible. 1973 will filter this out, if it does not sound bass light use it till you work out what's wrong.

I went over the turntable, it's really set up and adjusted like a Swiss watch. It does this on all records, new and old and on digital sources too.
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#4
Maybe there's a problem with the SAM profile for your speakers? I remember there were some similar reports (some time ago on this forum) about SAM problems with specific speaker models. Might perhaps be worth getting in touch with Devialet to let them know of your concerns. Alternatively perhaps someone else here is using the same speakers and could confirm what you're hearing.
Roon (Mac Mini), Wilson Benesch Full Circle, Expert 1000 Pro CI, Kaiser Chiara
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#5
(08-Nov-2017, 00:05)thumb5 Wrote: Maybe there's a problem with the SAM profile for your speakers? I remember there were some similar reports (some time ago on this forum) about SAM problems with specific speaker models. Might perhaps be worth getting in touch with Devialet to let them know of your concerns. Alternatively perhaps someone else here is using the same speakers and could confirm what you're hearing.

Quick update, as I'm testing all options and getting used to the Devialet...

I own the B&W CMS2 line of speakers, tried SAM profile for CM8S2 and CM9S2 and the thumping sound when SAM is activated is pretty much constant throughout digital and analog (turntable) sources.

Next I tried a SAM profile for B&W 804D3, this was labeled as a V8 profile only (I run current 10.1.0 firmware). Thumping was there all the same.

Next I downgraded the firmware to 9.0.1, just to try. And again the thumping rumbling sound from Devialet trying to limit woofer excursion was present on CMS2 and 804D3 (V8) profiles with SAM on.

Next I decided to try the talked about 7.1.3 firmware... No thumping sound when SAM is on! Everything sound as it should. Absolutely perfect.

So what is going on here?
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#6
Is there a SAM profile for your actual speaker model? If not then it will not work correctly.


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#7
(08-Nov-2017, 05:26)invictus005 Wrote:
(08-Nov-2017, 00:05)thumb5 Wrote: Maybe there's a problem with the SAM profile for your speakers?  I remember there were some similar reports (some time ago on this forum) about SAM problems with specific speaker models.  Might perhaps be worth getting in touch with Devialet to let them know of your concerns.  Alternatively perhaps someone else here is using the same speakers and could confirm what you're hearing.

Quick update, as I'm testing all options and getting used to the Devialet...

I own the B&W CMS2 line of speakers, tried SAM profile for CM8S2 and CM9S2 and the thumping sound when SAM is activated is pretty much constant throughout digital and analog (turntable) sources.

Next I tried a SAM profile for B&W 804D3, this was labeled as a V8 profile only (I run current 10.1.0 firmware). Thumping was there all the same.

Next I downgraded the firmware to 9.0.1, just to try. And again the thumping rumbling sound from Devialet trying to limit woofer excursion was present on CMS2 and 804D3 (V8) profiles with SAM on.

Next I decided to try the talked about 7.1.3 firmware... No thumping sound when SAM is on! Everything sound as it should. Absolutely perfect.

So what is going on here?

You're not using the SAM profile for your speakers mate. That's what's going on. You're lucky you haven't blown up your speakers. The wrong SAM profile is like putting Diesel in a Petrol car. Not a good combo
                                                    Lifetime Roon, Mac mini, int. SSD, ext. HDD, tv as monitor, key board and track pad on bean bag as remote,Devialet 200, Od'A #097, Blue jeans speaker cable,                                     
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#8
(08-Nov-2017, 06:48)NickB Wrote: Is there a SAM profile for your actual speaker model? If not then it will not work correctly.


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Yes, B&W CM8 S2.
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#9
The OP is not actually using the wrong SAM profile. In his first post he says ' I'm using Bowers & Wilkins speakers with correct SAM profile'. Later he is trying other B&W profiles for testing.
I think SAM may be reacting to subsonic content i.e. tonearm/cartridge resonances. SAM should have enough deep bass filtering to avoid this so something is not right. Try enabling the high pass/subsonic filter of the amp. This ought to fix the problem while you research the cause and get it resolved properly
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#10
(08-Nov-2017, 07:48)ogs Wrote: The OP is not actually using the wrong SAM profile. In his first post he says ' I'm using Bowers & Wilkins speakers with correct SAM profile'. Later he is trying other B&W profiles for testing.
I think SAM may be reacting to subsonic content i.e. tonearm/cartridge resonances. SAM should have enough deep bass filtering to avoid this so something is not right. Try enabling the high pass/subsonic filter of the amp. This ought to fix the problem while you research the cause and get it resolved properly

Thumping noise is on both analog and digital sources, just more audible on vinyl. If I set up high pass rumble filter on the output, 15Hz at 24dB, noise goes away, but then it doesn't sound as good. Noise goes away with RIAA 1976 (as it has a forced rumble filter), but is present on RIAA 1953.

I've now tried additional firmware versions and everything with SAM1 works fine, with SAM2 it has the thumping problem.

One thing to clarify, my LE 120 did not come with a remote, so I'm using iOS phone app for controlling the functions, therefore SAM is always either off or on 100%. I cannot adjust SAM's % level.

I've ordered a remote and once it comes in, I'll be able to test SAM2's % levels below 100%. I've been reading this forum and it seems that many people have had a problem with SAM2 and rumbling noises and most run bellow 100%.

But this is still upsetting.
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