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Best way to connect REL subwoofer to Devialet 200
#1
Hi guys,
I've recently bought a REL T5 subwoofer. The existing system include Devialet 200 and KEF LS50.

After researching a few guides and topics from the internet, I followed the instruction here:
http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/deviale...crossover/
So the REL T5 is connected to the Devialet 200 via Low Level Input, with the suggested settings. I then changed the setting on the REL itself via turning the knobs on the back until I found the bass is good enough.
So far I'm quite happy with the setup, the bass is more extended and goes deeper.

However I also read that REL suggest to connect Class D amp to subwoofer via High Level Input, using their 3-wire interconect:
https://relsupport.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/...on-Methods
This way the yellow and red wires go straight to the Speaker Output on the amp, in this case the Devialet. I just don't understand how you can both connect the REL wires and the speaker cable at the same time. I'm not good at electricity and don't want to blow up the Devialet, that's why I haven't tested this method yet.


My question is any of you have tried both method (Low Level Input and High Level Input) with the Devialet amp and which way is better?
Thank you for your reading and contribution.
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#2
I haven't tried connecting both sub and speakers to the same speaker terminals on a Devialet. I have on a NAD and on a Rotel power amp.

Ways to physically make the dual connection if you use the high levvel connection method:

1- the Red cable has bared ends at the amp end. You can wrap those around the binding post and tighten it down and then insert banana plug terminated speaker cables for the speakers or you could use spade terminated speaker cables but spades are awkward on a Devialet because the terminals are low to the shelf below and there's the hood over the top so using spades is awkward unless you connect them at an angle and that can raise it's own set of problems.

2- use banana plugs that allow you to piggy back another banana into them. I don't think it would matter whether you use the piggy back plugs on the speaker cables or the REL cable.

It's quite safe to do with most amps but if I remember correctly there can be problems doing this with some class D amps. I can't remember seeing any reports of problems with a Devialet. Hopefully there's someone here using the high level connection method who can comment using it with a Devialet. The REL draws very little current from the connection and it really doesn't make a difference to the amp when it comes to powering your speakers.

The big difference between the high and low level connection method is this:

With the low level connection you need to set the crossover frequency between sub and speaker in the amp and you set the crossover frequency dial on the sub at the highest level it will go to in order to make sure that the amp is controlling the crossover. The speaker no longer runs full range so the amp has an easier job driving it. You have to balance the sub's gain setting and phase control in order to get the levels and phase integration working well.

With the high level connection you run the speaker full range. You don't set a crossover frequency in the amp, you use the crossover frequency control in the REL to set the crossover and what that does is it rolls the upper range of the REL off over the range where the speaker is naturally rolling off. Both sub and speaker are active over an octave or so at the bottom of the speaker's range and the sub's response boosts the level of the bass you hear. You need to set the sub's gain and phase settings as with the low level connection. Your amp will work as hard as it does when it's driving the speakers with no sub attached because you're running the speakers in the same way you run them without a sub.

I think it's a bit harder to get things balanced with the high level connection. I made the same mistake initially as REL say most people make, I set the crossover frequency too high and the gain setting too low. You'll find that the best results with the high level connection come when you set the crossover frequency lower than you think it should be and use a higher gain setting. I ended up setting the crossover setting on the REL I had, a Strata 3 which is bigger than your T5, at 32 Hz, the lowest setting available and much lower than the -3dB frequency of my speakers which is where I initially thought the crossover frequency should be. Then I bought the gain setting up a lot.

You really need some sort of sound level meter to help you balance the sub and speakers using the sub's gain settings, it's quite tricky to do by ear and takes experience. Even better is an app for your phone or tablet which gives you octave band analysis. I used an app from Faber Acoustics on my iPad (not cheap) and it gave the choice of octave or third of an octave band displays. Use the octave band if you use one of these apps. The third of an octave bands tend to vary a lot in level from band to adjacent band because of the way room nodes work at low frequencies. You don't see as much variation with the octave band display and that makes it a lot easier to adjust the lower bass to match the upper bass and get a good sounding result.

Hope some of that helps you.
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Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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#3
Thanks David, a lot of useful information from your post. I really appreciate your time writing this. 

While waiting for someone who has good result with the Subwoofer connecting to the Devialet via High Level Input, I will stick to the Low Level for now.
As the instruction from the website, I currently set the crossover at 80hz, please see attached my setting for the Sub and Speakers.

Should I play around with this number (80hz) to see if there is any better result? The KEF LS50 range is from 47hz-45khz.
Should I change the setting using the knobs on the REL sub? Attached is my current setting. Is there a formula to get the best result?

   
   
   
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#4
You can play around with either 80 or 70 Htz. The frequency response for LS50 falls pretty fast around 60 htz (as per Stereophile's measurement). You can also play around with foam port plug for ls50.
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#5
What @sam1000 said, you can play with the frequency but 70 or 80 Hz sounds good.

On the REL, ruse the top 1/LFE Input. It disables the sub's crossover setting and lets the amp control the crossover. I forgot about that option with RELs when I wrote my earlier response. You adjust the level dial next to it to balance the sub's level plus try both positions on the phase switch, the one which gives the loudest result is the one to use.

The delay setting in the Devialet sub settings is for correcting for differences in distance to the listening position for the sub and speakers. Quick and very dirty rule: for each 1 foot further away the sub is than the speakers are, add 1 millisecond delay. You can't add a negative delay if the sub is closer than the speakers but don't worry about that if the sub is only a foot or two closer. You may need to add a little bit more delay as well, up to an additional 3 or 4 milliseconds, because all of that amp circuitry in the sub adds a little time delay of its own but the only way to work that out is by experimentation. You may be making a few new config files while you get the delay setting correct.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, Keces P8 LPS, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN with optical fibre link to my router, Shunyata Alpha NR and Sigma NR power cables, Shunyata Sigma ethernet cables, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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#6
Hi guys,
So I read @”Jgw911” topic about using High Level Input and decided to try and compare both ways.
I followed the instruction from REL video, for the Devialet, I unscrewed the binding posts, slide the red and yellow wires to the holes, and screwed it back. Then plug the banana speaker cable back in place.

After a few tweaking on the back of the REL subwoofer I’m finally happy with the setup with the crossover around 50hz. Using the High Level Input allow me to select SAM for the Devialet, although I prefer non-SAM setting.

My previous speakers are Harbeth SHL5+ and to me the bass of LS50 + REL T5 Subwoofer is better. This is a very good solution at a reasonable price.
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#7
(04-Jun-2019, 05:48)kylevuong Wrote: I followed the instruction from REL video, for the Devialet, I unscrewed the binding posts, slide the red and yellow wires to the holes, and screwed it back. Then plug the banana speaker cable back in place.

Just to understand what you did on your D200,

RED went to Right+, YELLOW to Left+. 

Did you leave the BLACK taped or attached it to the GROUND Post of your D-200 under the Phono RCAs ?
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#8
(12-Jun-2019, 05:56)audio_engr Wrote:
(04-Jun-2019, 05:48)kylevuong Wrote: I followed the instruction from REL video, for the Devialet, I unscrewed the binding posts, slide the red and yellow wires to the holes, and screwed it back. Then plug the banana speaker cable back in place.

Just to understand what you did on your D200,

RED went to Right+, YELLOW to Left+. 

Did you leave the BLACK taped or attached it to the GROUND Post of your D-200 under the Phono RCAs ?

I left the BLACK wire out, not taped or anything. I didn't notice anything wrong with the sound so I just leave it as it is.
Do I have to taped it or attach it to the Ground Post of D200?
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