Poll: Are you considering a Dac-less streamer for your Devialet?
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No - I'm happy with AIR or other computer-based solution
28.65%
53 28.65%
No - I already own one
38.92%
72 38.92%
Yes!
32.43%
60 32.43%
Total 185 vote(s) 100%
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Dac-less streamer survey!
#21
Simaudio MiND 180 should be on the list, it's the original DAC-less streamer many here started with (and still use!)
Rega RP8/DV20xL; DV P75 Phono; Intel Win10 NUC + Roon; Devialet 440 Pro CI; PMC 25.26; Chord interconnects and speaker cable
Dublin, Ireland
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#22
(26-Feb-2015, 17:04)Neffa Wrote: Simaudio MiND 180 should be on the list, it's the original DAC-less streamer many here started with (and still use!)

Thanks Neffa! Added to my local spread sheet. will pot it in couple of days. Guess its already reaching its mature list.
Airport Express > WD NAS > MacBook AIR (RoonServer) >USB (AQ Jitterbug & Cable) > Deviate 120 > Chord Silver cables >KEF 203/2
Ipad Mini 4 Roon Remote
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#23
(25-Feb-2015, 12:02)PhilP Wrote:
(25-Feb-2015, 09:08)Jnan_devi Wrote:
(25-Feb-2015, 08:43)amabrok Wrote:
(25-Feb-2015, 05:54)Jnan_devi Wrote: Thanks Amabrok! updated my spread sheet

Updated list of Network Players (no priority at this time, i m sure folks on the forum already has some preference already)

Totaldac D1
Aurender X100
Bryston BDP-1/2
Aria steamer
Aria mini
Auralic Aries 
Aurender N 
Antipodes DX, DV
Melco N1A
NAD M50
3D Lab Nano Transport
Pioneer N-70 streamer
Denon DNP
Yamaha NP

Great idea to start a list as its so difficult to keep track of what's out there Wink  

Ideally we should have a matrix to show the features that streamers include e.g. optical drive for ripping CDs, internal HDD storage, DAC, inputs, outputs etc.

Maybe it would be best to start with just a simple list of streamers that don't have DACs i.e. exclude the Pioneer N70 etc. that do

That matrix would be a great source of information. 

I cannot recall seeing anything of the sort before. 

Essentially, I'd love to see a list including:

- what inputs does it have;
- what outputs; 
- what does it store, and how;
- what are the "add on" options;
- does it rip; 
- what are the user interface options;

... and so on.

I think that, half the time, the magazine and web reviewers don't really know what each bit of kit does, nor how to describe it.
Antipodes CX and EX and P1 with P2 to come/MacBook Pro/
Draytek Vigor 2860v-Plus/Devialet Original d'Atelier CI Nos. 54A&B/Magico Q1 pair/Wilson Benesch Torus

Shunyata cables (digital/interconnect/loudspeaker/power)/Shunyata power units (Triton/Typhon)

 Dialog/Phantom Gold/Tree pair
Missing Link cables (power)
England
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#24
And interesting, in my view, that Devialet chose to make Phantom their second product rather than one of "these" which would seem to be a natural.

So either they are out to diversify their customer base, or they think there is no money to be made here, or that this type of sourcing is not the end game, or they are just wanting to be "Apple aligned", ... or maybe they are doing one to launch at Munich?
Antipodes CX and EX and P1 with P2 to come/MacBook Pro/
Draytek Vigor 2860v-Plus/Devialet Original d'Atelier CI Nos. 54A&B/Magico Q1 pair/Wilson Benesch Torus

Shunyata cables (digital/interconnect/loudspeaker/power)/Shunyata power units (Triton/Typhon)

 Dialog/Phantom Gold/Tree pair
Missing Link cables (power)
England
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#25
(26-Feb-2015, 18:20)IanG-UK Wrote: And interesting, in my view, that Devialet chose to make Phantom their second product rather than one of "these" which would seem to be a natural.

So either they are out to diversify their customer base, or they think there is no money to be made here, or that this type of sourcing is not the end game, or they are just wanting to be "Apple aligned", ... or maybe they are doing one to launch at Munich?

I think their aspirations towards the volume market are the important factor here.  An audiophile streamer may have higher-volume appeal than the so-called Expert series amplifiers, but it's still a very limited market.  Phantom takes them into a much higher-volume "lifestyle multi-room audio" market by competing with Sonos, Bose, B&O (?), etc.  My guess is that their next major product, whenever that arrives, will continue the trend.
Roon (Mac Mini), Wilson Benesch Full Circle, Sonos ZP90 (Cullen modified), Expert 1000 Pro CI, Kaiser Chiara
Warwickshire, UK
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#26
(26-Feb-2015, 18:35)thumb5 Wrote:
(26-Feb-2015, 18:20)IanG-UK Wrote: And interesting, in my view, that Devialet chose to make Phantom their second product rather than one of "these" which would seem to be a natural.

So either they are out to diversify their customer base, or they think there is no money to be made here, or that this type of sourcing is not the end game, or they are just wanting to be "Apple aligned", ... or maybe they are doing one to launch at Munich?

I think their aspirations towards the volume market are the important factor here.  An audiophile streamer may have higher-volume appeal than the so-called Expert series amplifiers, but it's still a very limited market.  Phantom takes them into a much higher-volume "lifestyle multi-room audio" market by competing with Sonos, Bose, B&O (?), etc.  My guess is that their next major product, whenever that arrives, will continue the trend.

I think you're probably right. 

Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

Absolare Integrated Signature v2, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-seven, Echole PSU for Totaldac, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Shunyata Research cables, Shunyata Triton v3 + Typhon QR + DPC-6 v3, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, Entreq Athena level 3 rack, SOtM sNH-10G with sCLK-EX + 10MHz Master Clock input + sPS-500 PSU, i5 sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD

UK
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#27
I have just posted this conundrum on another post, but this seems a good place to repeat it
If the 200 DAC and other DACs in other amps for that matter really are that good then why would anyone spend a lot of cash on a streamer/ network player. It all seems so much more complex now. You used to have source, amp and speakers. Now we have amps with DACs. Streamers with DACs. Both of those without DACs. Oh and of course standalone DAC
Devialet 200 -- Roon Nucleus-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cable
Auralic Taurus MK2 Headphone Amp -- HifiMan HEK, Sennheiser HD800S
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
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#28
By now you (Womaz) figured Devialet has high end DAC Texas Instrument PCM1792.
This post is looking for a good Network streamer which does not have DAC (dont want to pay for it Smile again and maybe other serious tech stuff i m not an Audio expert ).

This list will also include Dialog from Devialet thats coming in near future. for perfect quality, senior folks in this forum use streamers which is a computer on its own, Either Intel based (Bryston, NUC, Apple Mini) or ARM based (there are many in the list) and a robust APP (iPad, Iphone, androids etc) to use, and play the music sitting in couch. the Streamer will figure to fetch from NAS, HDD and send it to Devialet on USB, ETH etc. wired is always better. and also for hires, quality is way to high (you already know it)

Some background on wireless, feel free l to skip this...
Wireless - normal packets of information sent to destination, if not reached correctly, the protocol resends the packet, re-stitch it. however audio/video, once sent to the destination (Devialet), even if there is miss in the packet, there is no re-sending, because the time has already passed. Hence there is Cache on board on these streamers which helps to buffer enough so there is no glitch. Qaulity - Near to the original. Of-course there is lot to the whole thing, its not as simple as i have written couple of lines here.
Airport Express > WD NAS > MacBook AIR (RoonServer) >USB (AQ Jitterbug & Cable) > Deviate 120 > Chord Silver cables >KEF 203/2
Ipad Mini 4 Roon Remote
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#29
(26-Feb-2015, 21:56)Womaz Wrote: I have just posted this conundrum on another post, but this seems a good place to repeat it
If the 200 DAC and other DACs in other amps for that matter really are that good then why would anyone spend a lot of cash on a streamer/ network player. It all seems so much more complex now. You used to have source, amp and speakers. Now we have amps with DACs. Streamers with DACs. Both of those without DACs. Oh and of course standalone DAC

I think I can answer this.  The Devialet cannot make music by itself, it needs something to feed it a file.  This can be a computer, a streamer, or a smart phone or tablet.  Using a phone or tablet will not give optimum sound quality.  So it becomes a straight choice between a computer or streamer to facilitate sending those digital music files.  Now my PC with JRiver / WASAPI sounds superb with AIR.  However, I would like to listen to music without the hassle o turning the PC on, something I associate with early mornings at work!  Furthermore, there is then the possibility that a dedicated streamer has the potential to provide superior sound quality to a PC.  There are a number of reports on this forum that back this up.

Indeed the Devialet has an excellent DAC, so if you want a streamer and best sound quality for your cash, the logic dictates that this is most likely to come from a DAC free steamer.  Why pay for something you will never use?  Having said that, I was reading the other day that the Pioneer N-50 (£500 with DAC)  shares much of its chassis with the Krell Connect (£2500 without DAC).  So it remains possible that there may be the odd DAC equipped streamer that does actually offer value for money, a company like Pioneer will have massive economies of scale, which may negate the cost of the DAC completely.  Having said that, I suspect that in a straight head to head test, something like the Pioneer N-50 or the new N-70 will not be a match for something like the Aries or 3Dlab Nano in terms of pure sound quality, but until someone tries this, we cannot be sure. 
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#30
Thanks for the replies guys. A lot of what you say i understand and I know why people chose a dedicated streamer over say a PC.
What I dont get is if the DAC is really where the sound quality comes from then why would someone pay say £2500 fir the Aurender N100 streamer. Are you saying that the streamer can make that much difference to the SQ.? Surely the quality of the DAC is the critical thing and the streamer fairly insignificant. By the way I am not arguing either way as I dont know, but this is something I have been unable to get my head round lately.
Devialet 200 -- Roon Nucleus-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cable
Auralic Taurus MK2 Headphone Amp -- HifiMan HEK, Sennheiser HD800S
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
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