(05-Jun-2020, 17:28)Charcharius Wrote: I'm no expert, and I have a lot to learn! I'm hesitant, as I'm sure I'll get corrected -- but here is what I think I know. Please correct me!!!
I think of things this way.
Original recording > Final Source Material > Digital File for Distribution > Regional Transmission (streaming, NAS, local file) > Decoding (MQA only) > Rendering (MQA only) > Local transmission (Airplay, Bluetooth, UPnP) > Digi/Analog Conversion > Amplification > Wire connection to Speaker > Speaker Output.
No step in the process can add detail - they can limit it though.
So, how do we stream hi-res?
Make sure the digital file is what you want. Tidal does FLAC for CD-quality (they call it "Hifi") and Master for MQA. There is a lot of debate as to whether MQA is worth the hassle. My take is that it is -- but I'm enjoying the tinkering involved either way!
Transmission is the first issue. While the Tidal app works great, it can be a dead end for wireless, as it doesn't have UPnP built in. If you have a wired connection to your Reactors, it isn't a problem. Importantly, neither AirPlay nor vanilla Bluetooth can handle anything better than FLAC (44 kHz). Apt-X (HD Bluetooth) is an option if you're not on iOS, but the Reactors don't support Apt-X.
MQA adds a wrinkle. You need to decode (44 kHz -> 88 kHz or 48 kHz -> 96 kHz) and render (96 -> 192 kHz) - each step "unfolds" details in the music file. Tidal, MConnect, and Audirvana can decode (typically done in software). Rendering is typically done in hardware (like a MQA capable DAC) but I'm trying to confirm if apps like Audirvana can render as well. The Dragonfly acts as your renderer. The Reactors CANNOT render MQA (they have an internal DAC though!)
If you wire your DAC to the Reactors, you can get this full 192 kHz MQA data to them. If you stream over wireless, as I do, you're limited to 92 kHz. This streaming MUST be done via UPnP.
I don't know anything about DSD or over very high bitrate file formats, but I believe the Reactors can handle up to 192 kHz if you transport the files via wire or UPnP.
So, for our Reactors,
WIRED: 192 kHz data (rendered MQA or HiDef formats) from a DAC
WIRELESS: HiDef formats or up to 92 kHz MQA
I use Audirvana (requires a Mac or PC) to stream and decode the MQA. The Mac transports the decoded stream at 92 kHz via UPnP to the reactor [Note I am trying to confirm if Audirvana can also render], which DAC's, amplifies, and creates the sound. Their iOS app is a remote control for the Mac.
MConnect simplifies the process by streaming and transporting the file via UPnP to the speaker itself. They claim MQA decoding, but I'll confess I'm not convinced. For example, when I play MConnect on my iPad through my USB DAC (Zorloo Ztella MQA version), it indicates that it is playing at only 44 kHz.
Does this help?
Aaron
Wow, been waiting for this info for more than a year, thank you so much, this clears all out, and for many others as well!!
So i downloaded both Audirvana and Mconnect, looks very promising, but couple questions raised again, of course if i get a DAC i will be able to stream 24 192, but having the phantoms its own DAC plus what Audirvana does with software, do you really need an external DAC?
Another question, using both apps, do you feel sound differences between them?
And last, do you feel big difference between streaming from tidal vs audirvana?
(05-Jun-2020, 17:28)Charcharius Wrote: I'm no expert, and I have a lot to learn! I'm hesitant, as I'm sure I'll get corrected -- but here is what I think I know. Please correct me!!!
I think of things this way.
Original recording > Final Source Material > Digital File for Distribution > Regional Transmission (streaming, NAS, local file) > Decoding (MQA only) > Rendering (MQA only) > Local transmission (Airplay, Bluetooth, UPnP) > Digi/Analog Conversion > Amplification > Wire connection to Speaker > Speaker Output.
No step in the process can add detail - they can limit it though.
So, how do we stream hi-res?
Make sure the digital file is what you want. Tidal does FLAC for CD-quality (they call it "Hifi") and Master for MQA. There is a lot of debate as to whether MQA is worth the hassle. My take is that it is -- but I'm enjoying the tinkering involved either way!
Transmission is the first issue. While the Tidal app works great, it can be a dead end for wireless, as it doesn't have UPnP built in. If you have a wired connection to your Reactors, it isn't a problem. Importantly, neither AirPlay nor vanilla Bluetooth can handle anything better than FLAC (44 kHz). Apt-X (HD Bluetooth) is an option if you're not on iOS, but the Reactors don't support Apt-X.
MQA adds a wrinkle. You need to decode (44 kHz -> 88 kHz or 48 kHz -> 96 kHz) and render (96 -> 192 kHz) - each step "unfolds" details in the music file. Tidal, MConnect, and Audirvana can decode (typically done in software). Rendering is typically done in hardware (like a MQA capable DAC) but I'm trying to confirm if apps like Audirvana can render as well. The Dragonfly acts as your renderer. The Reactors CANNOT render MQA (they have an internal DAC though!)
If you wire your DAC to the Reactors, you can get this full 192 kHz MQA data to them. If you stream over wireless, as I do, you're limited to 92 kHz. This streaming MUST be done via UPnP.
I don't know anything about DSD or over very high bitrate file formats, but I believe the Reactors can handle up to 192 kHz if you transport the files via wire or UPnP.
So, for our Reactors,
WIRED: 192 kHz data (rendered MQA or HiDef formats) from a DAC
WIRELESS: HiDef formats or up to 92 kHz MQA
I use Audirvana (requires a Mac or PC) to stream and decode the MQA. The Mac transports the decoded stream at 92 kHz via UPnP to the reactor [Note I am trying to confirm if Audirvana can also render], which DAC's, amplifies, and creates the sound. Their iOS app is a remote control for the Mac.
MConnect simplifies the process by streaming and transporting the file via UPnP to the speaker itself. They claim MQA decoding, but I'll confess I'm not convinced. For example, when I play MConnect on my iPad through my USB DAC (Zorloo Ztella MQA version), it indicates that it is playing at only 44 kHz.
Does this help?
Aaron
Wow, been waiting for this info for more than a year, thank you so much, this clears all out, and for many others as well!!
So i downloaded both Audirvana and Mconnect, looks very promising, but couple questions raised again, of course if i get a DAC i will be able to stream 24 192, but having the phantoms its own DAC plus what Audirvana does with software, do you really need an external DAC?
Another question, using both apps, do you feel sound differences between them?
And last, do you feel big difference between streaming from tidal vs audirvana?
I can speak to this as I use a Mac / Audirvana. I hard wire from the Mac to a preamp (for preamp functions and digital room correction) to the Phantoms, but you can go directly to the Phantoms if you've an older MAC with an optical output. You don't need an external DAC. I don't like Mconnect and don't use it. BTW, go for a rectangular-shaped room for your direct listening space in the new house, and keep everything symmetrical in the listening area... this will save you headaches down the road.
2 Channel Power / Signal Path: APC H15 → Mistral Audio W-3900 → Custom Roon Server → Silent Angel Bonn N8 → Silent Angel Forester F1 → miniDSP SHD Studio → Mutec MC-3+ USB → Devialet Phantom I 108dB Headphone iFi Audio iDSD Signature → Grado GS1000i
Do you need the DAC?
This depends on a) your belief if the external DAC is better than the Phantoms, and b) if you are willing to capture this improved performance via hardwiring the DAC output to the optical input on the Reactors, or c) the DAC has other benefits like MQA decoding/rendering. I completely agree with supaDean here (as always!). I like the simplicity of having the DAC/streaming/amp/speakers all in a nice small package that can do airplay for when I need something super easy (my wife isn't interested in this stuff, as an example).
Is Audirvana better than MConnect?
The interface is better, it tries to reduce noise from the computer's other electronics, and I trust it more with the MQA output. Downsides are cost and the need to have my Mac running. My take? yes, it's better.
Is it better to stream to the Reactors via Audirvana over Tidal?
Heck yes. If you go via Audirvana, you can UPnP 92 kHz MQA or DSD. If you go via Tidal, you're limited by airplay or bluetooth as mentioned above.
Room Geo (from Juan's other thread)
I'd focus more on speaker positioning versus building around a set of speakers. (Again, as supaDean suggests.)
08-Jun-2020, 06:45 (This post was last modified: 08-Jun-2020, 06:50 by Juanbk.)
Thank you guys, spent the whole day listening on Audirvana, im impressed...
About the DAC, i think ill pass for now and save for later ,then buy a really good one, i love classical music and i can take advantage of the added quality MQA brings.
About my house, im starting the project so i hope to show some renders in the future for your valuable opinions.
Thank you so much for the feedback
BTW. Im curious about which settings are you on Audirvana, are you upsampling? Which settings should i keep on or off?
I’d turn off upsampling. As I mentioned previously, you cannot add detail to a song. Worse, upsampling coupled with downsampling later in the chain (including the transfer to the Reactors, or within them, can lower the quality of the final product. (44 kHz to 48 then back to 44).
I found that using the Audirvana option to reduce my mac’s power use wasn’t of noticeable benefit.
13-Jun-2020, 23:37 (This post was last modified: 15-Jun-2020, 07:18 by Juanbk.)
Hello again!
Well i have some questions regarding your setups, i have a Motu Traveler i bought 10 or more years ago. To connect it to my macbookpro i have to buy 80 dollars worth of firewire adapters, plus the cables that gonto the reactors, my question is , is it worth to spent the 100 extra dollars in setting it up, i see some of you Using sound cards for room correction etc..
Also which of the ports is the best , optical or other?
Am i missing big time without using the motu and the travelers?
UPDATE. Apparently I can't install the driver of the motu because power pc is not supported anymore, anyone having this issue, and if so, is there any solution?
Hello everyone, so managed to install the Motu software in my MacBook Pro, ow i have to decide if its worth to buy the adapters and cables to plug into the reactors. Knowing most of you are more experienced in this topics, having to spend 100 us moreles in adapters and cables, is going to be worth?
Or is it better tu buy a 100 dac?
Thank you!
