I have a Pioneer Bluray player, nothing special, a sub £200 piece of kit. It will play SACD, and can be set to output PCM, which works fine with the Devialet. The Pioneer is a BDP-450, which is essentially a transport, i.e. it has no DAC. A cheap way to play those SACD's while we all wait for some kind of DSD support. It sound good too, a lot better that you might expect from a sub £200 piece of kit, although being a DAC free machine, you are not spending money on stuff you don't need.
(09-Jul-2014, 18:25)f1eng Wrote: [ -> ] (09-Jul-2014, 10:10)Mka Wrote: [ -> ] (09-Jul-2014, 03:51)agentsmith Wrote: [ -> ]Any news on the DSD upgrade? Apparently this is not a difficult thing to do. I had my dCS Debussy upgraded via firmware and it was seamless. It took a long long time after their announcement since dCS was one of the firsts to implement DoP, and their quality control was superb, way up there with Devialet.
I doubt that if done properly, the integration of the dsd bitstream is an easy thing to do. Not because of the DAC integration but if they would like to do it right they need to adapt all their DSP (SAM etc) algorithms from PCM to bitstream. otherwise it would be just an dsd to PCM codec in front the dac not using its native mode.
If I understand it correctly no manipulation of DSD is possible in the digital domain, so if SAM is used the data will have to be converted to PCM anyway for the computation to be done.
Is it not the case that some workstations (e.g. Pyramix) can manipulate DSD natively?
But I think you're right that what normally happens is that DSD is converted to PCM for editing.
Matt
(09-Jul-2014, 20:44)Jwg1749 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-Jul-2014, 18:25)f1eng Wrote: [ -> ] (09-Jul-2014, 10:10)Mka Wrote: [ -> ] (09-Jul-2014, 03:51)agentsmith Wrote: [ -> ]Any news on the DSD upgrade? Apparently this is not a difficult thing to do. I had my dCS Debussy upgraded via firmware and it was seamless. It took a long long time after their announcement since dCS was one of the firsts to implement DoP, and their quality control was superb, way up there with Devialet.
I doubt that if done properly, the integration of the dsd bitstream is an easy thing to do. Not because of the DAC integration but if they would like to do it right they need to adapt all their DSP (SAM etc) algorithms from PCM to bitstream. otherwise it would be just an dsd to PCM codec in front the dac not using its native mode.
If I understand it correctly no manipulation of DSD is possible in the digital domain, so if SAM is used the data will have to be converted to PCM anyway for the computation to be done.
Is it not the case that some workstations (e.g. Pyramix) can manipulate DSD natively?
But I think you're right that what normally happens is that DSD is converted to PCM for editing.
Matt
I guess they could transcode to PCM only for SAM, and full DSD for non-SAM?
Another question I have is if the support is added do the DAC chips support full DSD?
(09-Jul-2014, 20:44)Jwg1749 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-Jul-2014, 18:25)f1eng Wrote: [ -> ] (09-Jul-2014, 10:10)Mka Wrote: [ -> ] (09-Jul-2014, 03:51)agentsmith Wrote: [ -> ]Any news on the DSD upgrade? Apparently this is not a difficult thing to do. I had my dCS Debussy upgraded via firmware and it was seamless. It took a long long time after their announcement since dCS was one of the firsts to implement DoP, and their quality control was superb, way up there with Devialet.
I doubt that if done properly, the integration of the dsd bitstream is an easy thing to do. Not because of the DAC integration but if they would like to do it right they need to adapt all their DSP (SAM etc) algorithms from PCM to bitstream. otherwise it would be just an dsd to PCM codec in front the dac not using its native mode.
If I understand it correctly no manipulation of DSD is possible in the digital domain, so if SAM is used the data will have to be converted to PCM anyway for the computation to be done.
Is it not the case that some workstations (e.g. Pyramix) can manipulate DSD natively?
But I think you're right that what normally happens is that DSD is converted to PCM for editing.
Matt
I may well not have
, but if I understand correctly there is no way to manipulate a DSD stream.
This would be good for purist recordings, where the balance is achieved by moving a pair of microphones about, but AFAIK any multi track recording will not have been DSD from recording to disc.
My concern when I did the comparison was that DSD seemed to be a bit louder than PCM when recorded from the same analogue source, which obviously makes it sound better (and it did) but makes it almost impossible to do a real comparison since unless the level is matched to a very fine tolerance (0.1dB) the louder will sound better, even if level matched they are indistinguishable.
It is much easier to compare the various PCM files since they are easier to level match...
(10-Jul-2014, 09:56)f1eng Wrote: [ -> ]I may well not have , but if I understand correctly there is no way to manipulate a DSD stream.
This would be good for purist recordings, where the balance is achieved by moving a pair of microphones about, but AFAIK any multi track recording will not have been DSD from recording to disc.
My concern when I did the comparison was that DSD seemed to be a bit louder than PCM when recorded from the same analogue source, which obviously makes it sound better (and it did) but makes it almost impossible to do a real comparison since unless the level is matched to a very fine tolerance (0.1dB) the louder will sound better, even if level matched they are indistinguishable.
It is much easier to compare the various PCM files since they are easier to level match...
I think you're right about multi-track, but my (very imperfect) understanding is that some manipulation (e.g. EQ) can be done by converting the 1-bit DSD stream into an 8-bit format but retaining the original DSD sampling frequency (e.g. 2.8224 MHz, which is 8 times the max sampling frequency for PCM). This is then down-sampled back to 1-bit for mastering.
(14-Nov-2014, 11:13)GuillaumeB Wrote: [ -> ]A couple of interesting pieces on DSD, some of you may already have read these but I thought it would be good to share these on here.
http://www.grimmaudio.com/site/assets/fi...d_myth.pdf
http://www.grimmaudio.com/site/assets/fi..._faq-1.pdf
What with the imminent release of DoP on the Devialet platform it's probably time for some of us to start getting our heads around this format!
Guillaume
Guillaume,
How Devialet will make available the DoP for the Mac platform by Air if iTunes can't play DSD format? Unless ...
(14-Nov-2014, 16:05)Beajuju Wrote: [ -> ] (14-Nov-2014, 11:13)GuillaumeB Wrote: [ -> ]A couple of interesting pieces on DSD, some of you may already have read these but I thought it would be good to share these on here.
http://www.grimmaudio.com/site/assets/fi...d_myth.pdf
http://www.grimmaudio.com/site/assets/fi..._faq-1.pdf
What with the imminent release of DoP on the Devialet platform it's probably time for some of us to start getting our heads around this format!
Guillaume
Guillaume,
How Devialet will make available the DoP for the Mac platform by Air if iTunes can't play DSD format? Unless ...
DoP can only be transmitted through USB, AES or SPDIF... so I doubt AIR will be used at all.
Let's see how they implement this!
Guillaume
(14-Nov-2014, 16:24)GuillaumeB Wrote: [ -> ] (14-Nov-2014, 16:05)Beajuju Wrote: [ -> ] (14-Nov-2014, 11:13)GuillaumeB Wrote: [ -> ]A couple of interesting pieces on DSD, some of you may already have read these but I thought it would be good to share these on here.
http://www.grimmaudio.com/site/assets/fi...d_myth.pdf
http://www.grimmaudio.com/site/assets/fi..._faq-1.pdf
What with the imminent release of DoP on the Devialet platform it's probably time for some of us to start getting our heads around this format!
Guillaume
Guillaume,
How Devialet will make available the DoP for the Mac platform by Air if iTunes can't play DSD format? Unless ...
DoP can only be transmitted through USB, AES or SPDIF... so I doubt AIR will be used at all.
Let's see how they implement this!
Guillaume
Then it would contradict the Deviatet philosophy wishing to avoid any cable in the transmission of music.
Mario
(14-Nov-2014, 16:24)GuillaumeB Wrote: [ -> ] (14-Nov-2014, 16:05)Beajuju Wrote: [ -> ] (14-Nov-2014, 11:13)GuillaumeB Wrote: [ -> ]A couple of interesting pieces on DSD, some of you may already have read these but I thought it would be good to share these on here.
http://www.grimmaudio.com/site/assets/fi...d_myth.pdf
http://www.grimmaudio.com/site/assets/fi..._faq-1.pdf
What with the imminent release of DoP on the Devialet platform it's probably time for some of us to start getting our heads around this format!
Guillaume
Guillaume,
How Devialet will make available the DoP for the Mac platform by Air if iTunes can't play DSD format? Unless ...
DoP can only be transmitted through USB, AES or SPDIF... so I doubt AIR will be used at all.
Let's see how they implement this!
Guillaume
Guillaume,
Not entirely true, there is a way to encode the DoP envelope into FLAC and fool any medium into thinking it is plain FLAC files.
When the receiving DoP capable DAC receives the packet, it is fooled into thinking it is a normal DoP stream and happily plays it in DSD.
I used to do that with a Squeeebox Touch and my dCS DAC.
Mind you that is an extra step of encoding the files into FLAC formats, and more storage.
Details below:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread...-Wandboard
Worked like a charm