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Going to audition the phantoms and D120 also probably a D200 as well. If I prefer to go down the D120/200 route I was wondering if the D120 be enough to drive the diablos in a small room?
The D120 can be bought at a very good price 2nd hand now although the D200 is good as well but with the D120 I can stretch for a 2nd hand Diablo more comfortably.
I see a couple of members with the diablos running them with D200 but none with the D120
This upgrade is going to last me for a very long time and I want to get it right, but hopefully I will be happy with the phantoms but the diablos is always my dream speakers.
(11-Oct-2015, 13:43)Dom Wrote: [ -> ]Going to audition the phantoms and D120 also probably a D200 as well. If I prefer to go down the D120/200 route I was wondering if the D120 be enough to drive the diablos in a small room?
The D120 can be bought at a very good price 2nd hand now although the D200 is good as well but with the D120 I can stretch for a 2nd hand Diablo more comfortably.
I see a couple of members with the diablos running them with D200 but none with the D120
This upgrade is going to last me for a very long time and I want to get it right, but hopefully I will be happy with the phantoms but the diablos is always my dream speakers.

I know someone who is driving a pair of diablo from a D Premier (240W) in a very large room and we were barely cranking it up to -3 dB. There is only 3 dB between D120 and the D Premier.

I also drive 88dB / 2.83 V/ 1m speaker with a D120 in a fairly large room without feeling limited. The Diablos are 89 dB / 2.83 / 1m.

Bottom line is: if you can go for the 200, go for it because it has more inputs (in particular a much better phono input), can evolve to a D400 etc... but if budget is really tight, I don't think you would feel really frustrated if you go the D120 route.

Best regards,

Jean-Marie
Thanks Jean-Marie, it's just the diablos are pretty expensive and to buy both close to the same time for me is going to put a dent in the bank account.

Not too bothered about the phono, almost hoping the phantoms will be for me but with the diablos I would say will probably be my last speakers I'd buy.
(11-Oct-2015, 15:55)Dom Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks Jean-Marie, it's just the diablos are pretty expensive and to buy both close to the same time for me is going to put a dent in the bank account.

Not too bothered about the phono, almost hoping the phantoms will be for me but with the diablos I would say will probably be my last speakers I'd buy.

If you speak of phantoms, I think you should really listen to them.... a pair of phantom will cost less than a pair of diablos and a D120.... and sound wise, I would tend to say that the phantoms are playing in a different league....

Only counter indication that I could think of for the phantoms would be if you prefer the aesthetic of the diablos to the phantoms or if dematerialized music / streaming is not a significant way for you to consume music, although a pair of phantoms and a dialog already has 3 optical entries....

Really worth a listening session and don't let you fool by the bass sector. Yes in the bass sector, there are very few speakers that can compete with the phantom there. You should also listen to the mids and highs which in my opinion really play in the same league as very high end speakers.... Bottom line I think phantoms are very neutral full range speakers.

Jean-Marie
Jean-Marie a different league as in the phantoms are not in the same higher league than the d120 and diablos I presume?
I'm hoping I will be satisfied with the phantoms that will I not need to spend near double to buy the speaker and amp combo. One thing that still makes me hesitate about the phantoms is that they're the first model and there's usually a big jump from first to second model in technology.
(11-Oct-2015, 17:00)Dom Wrote: [ -> ]Jean-Marie a different league as in the phantoms are not in the same higher league than the d120 and diablos I presume?
I'm hoping I will be satisfied with the phantoms that will I not need to spend near double to buy the speaker and amp combo. One thing that still makes me hesitate about the phantoms is that they're the first model and there's usually a big jump from first to second model in technology.

Dom,

I think there is always a matter of taste, but I personally consider a pair of Phantoms superior to a pair of Utopia Diablos with a D400.

I also consider a pair of Phantoms superior to my system made of a D120 and a pair of floor standers which I consider (again a subjective judgment) in the same league as the diablos although they cost a lot less.... the only drawback of the Phantoms for me is very personal and is that I consider that my speakers with their shape and woodcraft are more in harmony with the rest of my living room than a piece of modern art. This being said, if I did not have a system already, I know that my choice would go to a pair of Phantom because to build a system that would even come close to them, you would need to spend 3 to 4 times their price at least.

Jean-Marie
(11-Oct-2015, 19:00)Jean-Marie Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-Oct-2015, 17:00)Dom Wrote: [ -> ]Jean-Marie a different league as in the phantoms are not in the same higher league than the d120 and diablos I presume?
I'm hoping I will be satisfied with the phantoms that will I not need to spend near double to buy the speaker and amp combo. One thing that still makes me hesitate about the phantoms is that they're the first model and there's usually a big jump from first to second model in technology.

Dom,

I think there is always a matter of taste, but I personally consider a pair of Phantoms superior to a pair of Utopia Diablos with a D400.

I also consider a pair of Phantoms superior to my system made of a D120 and a pair of floor standers which I consider (again a subjective judgment) in the same league as the diablos although they cost a lot less.... the only drawback of the Phantoms for me is very personal and is that I consider that my speakers with their shape and woodcraft are more in harmony with the rest of my living room than a piece of modern art. This being said, if I did not have a system already, I know that my choice would go to a pair of Phantom because to build a system that would even come close to them, you would need to spend 3 to 4 times their price at least.

Jean-Marie

I must say I´m pretty intrigued by this statement. I was under the impression that the Phantoms were less expensive and more practical, but a bit less capable compared to a system with an expert line amplifier and high end speakers. 
But as you say, this is subjective; I can understand those finding the combination of Deviatel and Focal Diablo to be to much on the analytical side, if your in for a warmer and richer sound. I´m a owner of a D400 and Diablos myself, and at the moment looking to try the B&W 805d just to try the sound a bit on the other side of the scale.

But hearing this about the Phantoms I really need to give them a listen! 

Concerning the question if a D120 is enough to drive the Diablos, I can only speak of my own experience. I started with a D200 before moving to a D400. The D200 was very good but moving to D400 gave the sound some extra oomph, this is pretty obvious at lower volumes where I thought the D200 struggled some with the Diablos (loosing some soundstage and punch). Can´t say if this was due to the extra power or just going mono.Though this is at very critical listening , the D200 makes an excellent work with the Diablos. Sorry, don´t know if that helped you   Wink

Johan
(11-Oct-2015, 22:19)Atomjohan Wrote: [ -> ][...]
But hearing this about the Phantoms I really need to give them a listen! 

Concerning the question if a D120 is enough to drive the Diablos, I can only speak of my own experience. I started with a D200 before moving to a D400. The D200 was very good but moving to D400 gave the sound some extra oomph, this is pretty obvious at lower volumes where I thought the D200 struggled some with the Diablos (loosing some soundstage and punch). Can´t say if this was due to the extra power or just going mono.Though this is at very critical listening , the D200 makes an excellent work with the Diablos. Sorry, don´t know if that helped you   Wink

Johan

Johan,

Yes hearing them oneself is really the only way to make oneself an opinion that really matters.

Concerning the move from the D200 to the D400, I honestly think that it comes much more from the intrinsic qualities of the dual Mono rather than the 3 dB increase in power. This tend to be proven by the fact that you are experiencing such improvement even at lower volumes where any difference cannot come from voltage or current capability (power) but all the rest.

My two cents,
Jean-Marie

PS: I should have told upfront that I'm listening primarily to classical music where it is quite easy to get an absolute reference: Go regularly to concerts which do not have any microphone nor amplification and you get a pretty good idea of how each instrument is supposed to be sounding. This is more difficult to get with other genres which are always amplified, in which case it is harder to get an indisputable reference of how it was sounding then being mixed.
I was in the same line of thinking with Atomjohan that the expert amps plus a high end pair of speakers would have better mids and highs (this is from reading forums though). Like you said Jean-Marie it's all a matter of taste or else we would all be buying the same.
My dealer do not have the diablos but they have a pair of b&w 804d2 and some focal aria I can try to get an idea how the phantoms compare but I am looking for a standmount this time round.
It's so fascinating how polarized the opinions of the phantoms are.
But this is getting off-topic and becoming a 'do I' - 'don't I', in regard to Phantom vs Expert.

I may be wrong, but there seems to be more and more folk here that have been swayed to the 'dark side' (the 'phantom' name is apt in this respect! Cool ) and appear to be suggesting that Phantom in 'pairs' may give even the D400 + a good set of speakers, a run for their money!

Gad I am tempted to go audition some, but I would worry I might be enticed into their devilish embrace... WoooHHAHHAAAAAA!

I just wonder what Phantom is doing for Expert sales these days? Angel
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