Devialet Chat

(13-Nov-2015, 20:07)Jamington2004 Wrote: [ -> ]Fuck it - just splashed out on an airport express!

I guess I don't need to understand it right?

So far so bloody amazing

And it's also fixed an issue with Spark taking a few seconds to connect each time i toggle to it

Now it snaps straight in so I can mute much quicker!!!

Halle bloody lujha!

(He says - wondering if he should have waited a few days before posting!!!)

FYI, I'm one of those who called Devialet, looked at their website, looked at their documentation that tech support forwarded to me, read through 'a zillion' thread on this forum, picked up a high end high bandwidth router, and picked up an Apple Airport extreme, and followed every instruction.  The ONLY thing I was not willing to do is to set my Phantom ONLY in the same room as my router and modem as I draw the line at rearranging my home to suit the Phantom.  No solution.  Stability for an hour - maybe.  And then everything goes to pot.  I even went beyond Devialet's solutions into the inner workings of my routers to prioritize the Devialet system above everything else on the network.  No stability. 

I'm one of those who finally gave up not for lack of trying, but for lack of any other things to try other than changing rearranging my home. 

Just one data point. 

MtnGuy

Without the aid of a systems architecture document, and circuit/software description..... using my own analytical instruments (frequency and spectrum analyzers, packet sniffers, and port probes) I offer the following:

The Dialog radio architecture cannot support the marketing and white paper claims for Wifi only performance. To handle up to 24 Phantoms w/without a Dialog requires at least a commercial grade WASP with 802.11ac Wave 2 1.6 gbs throughput capability, and the channel agility smart/bonding cognitive algorithms to handle an "industrial" application as one could construe from  the Devialet advertorials.

These units from excellent companies like Ruckus are typically $1K plus. Devialet has incorporated 2.4 and 5G radios in the Dialog with some claimed "smarts", but it's performance is mediocre, and a fragile implementation.

There has been no comprehensive independent published review of a large scale ( i.e. up to 24 Phantoms) Wifi only ( or ethernet/CPL based) Phantom network. And parenthetically, no Devialet published white paper illustrating actual configuration, environment and performance stress testing at system capacity.

In a Wifi only application with Dialog and multiple Phantoms (3-4) the units current design implementation will overheat likely due to the radios and processor overload handling of ambient RFI. Degradation is shown as frustrating dropouts, phase shifting, unit disappearances and recovery through a complete power down and full reset.

Ethernet and CPL hardwiring of the Dialog and Phantoms to a "solid" switch and router with high bandwidth WAN internet capability gives the most trouble free listening experience. The Dialog system architecture is not overly burdened with RFI fault detection and correction cycles because of the high signal integrity of the "wired" network, and does not require frequent power down/cool down full resets.

Spark does need a strong Wifi network integrated with the router for best intercom with the Dialog, and linking to the streaming and outboard sources. The Dialog optical in is fragile, and careful plugging of the source cable is essential in the current version. When optical connectivity is good the resultant musical output is excellent.

Spark is a very clumsy "beginner" app and too proprietary to last. I suspect  there will be a strategic change of direction by Devialet  to make NAS and ROON et al part of the option source list and much more ROON like in it's curation and source management.

So in the interim, I recommend the use of ethernet and CPL pairing devices like TP Link 8010's connected to your Dialog and Phantom(s) and your switch/router/WAN network to give you location independence ( no need for 30-100 meter ethernet cables ) with high quality wifi access points in the same network for your smartphones, tablets, laptops and desktops utilization of Spark. 

I pray for the day when the Phantoms "sing no more". 

If anyone has the systems design documentation, I would be pleased to be part of a peer group review solely in the interest of making the network architecture the equal of the speaker design per se.

Great post Ondastar I imagine if I have to buy an apple AirPort Extreme to set up 2 wireless phantoms in one small room, then any more than that (like the post above wanting to keep the phantoms in a different room to the dialogue) - would require more knowledge, more hardware, and more cost (unplanned) for the user

Last night I still noticed a couple of small periods of minor cut outs / interference when watching optical (sky box into optical switch into dialogue) I nearly cried and assumed it was about to escalate and die, but to my joy the moment passed after a few minutes

Any advice on how to stop this? Better cables? An extra optical box of some sort? (So far Tidal wifi is perfect)

I am surprised people are having these problems. My Phantoms work fine all the time now, and have for quite a while. I only had problems with filtered power outlets, without them mine worked pretty reliably even when I took them to the Scalford show in March using my laptop wireless on the hotel wireless network as an access point.

I don't listen to a lot of high res though.

(14-Nov-2015, 09:25)Jamington2004 Wrote: [ -> ]Great post Ondastar I imagine if I have to buy an apple AirPort Extreme to set up 2 wireless phantoms in one small room, then any more than that (like the post above wanting to keep the phantoms in a different room to the dialogue) - would require more knowledge, more hardware, and more cost (unplanned) for the user

Last night I still noticed a couple of small periods of minor cut outs / interference when watching optical (sky box into optical switch into dialogue) I nearly cried and assumed it was about to escalate and die, but to my joy the moment passed after a few minutes

Any advice on how to stop this? Better cables? An extra optical box of some sort? (So far Tidal wifi is perfect)

Prior to version 1.4.1.12 when switching sources to Dialog's optical in through my optical switch it appeared that the Dialog signal recognition software would glitch, resulting in stutters and cutouts and then usually stabilize. Post update the performance is solid. I would ask if your optical source switching is done mechanically or opto-electronically? Mechanical switching will be likely to result in the Dialog glitching. Good toslink cables (in my view you don't need $500 1 meter toslinks) ensuring that the connections are not loose, or subject to jostling and vibration should be fine.

It's obvious to say it but it seems some people have issues (numerous) and some don't. Is it worth volunteering the first parts of our serial numbers for our devices? It would be great if there was a hardware reason to blame!

I've set up my system (Dialog + 2 Phantoms) with a variation of slide 5.1 of the Devialet recommended setup. Rather than connect the main router to the Dialog via the Airport Express, I connected the router to the Dialog via powerline adapters so the Dialog can be near the Phantoms, which are in a different room from the router. I then connected the Airport Express to the Dialog via optical. The connection has been rock solid, and since the latest upgrade, after setting the volume for the optical input source once at an appropriate level, I can stream from any device to my Airport Express and control the volume adequately, doing away entirely with the need to use Spark, which I view as a needless and inferior interface.


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I've had my Silver Phantoms for about 2 weeks now - only experienced issues over Dialog WiFi streaming Hi-Res 24/192 files, which is pretty much expected. Once I put in a switch and wired the Phantoms there have been no issues whatsoever.

I just wish Spark had the much needed folder view option so I could navigate my NAS better.

Updated yesterday, went very smooth and no issues after. Love the Phantoms singing, also optical during movie last night one short break of sound in 1,5 hour. Not as it should be but no major issue.

(14-Nov-2015, 16:34)James007 Wrote: [ -> ]It's obvious to say it but it seems some people have issues (numerous) and some don't. Is it worth volunteering the first parts of our serial numbers for our devices? It would be great if there was a hardware reason to blame!

I have 3 Phantoms, all working without problems. The first two were ordered in December last year and delivered in March, the third was ordered in October and delivered a couple of days later, so probably very evolved hardware differences.
I re-did the setup using the new one as one of the stereo pair and making the third mono in a bedroom waiting for it to become the centre channel in surround sound setup.
All worked fine though Spark took a little while to "find" all 3.