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I'd given up on SAM, disabled it, and moved on.

That was with the 200, and when I went 250 Pro I tried briefly and ended up disabling it again. I've not really looked back. In fact I've been reasonably vocal about it not adding much.

The past couple of days I've had another play. I was reconfiguring the amp (for the inbound digiOne) and just kind of enabled it on autopilot.

In the interim since I last used it, I've done a few room corrections in Roon, using the freebie REW continuous averaged measurements method documented on the Roon forums. It's pretty good, I've been fiddling with house curves and PEQ just tweaking to dial it in in my tricky room. It's getting very close to how I like it, but I'm still missing a bit of bass slam. Probably I need a sub realistically, or different speakers, or according to some PMC fact owners, more power. None of which are really an option right now especially the sub which is just a setup hassle I could do without and don't want a big box in the lounge. So I was happy that my system sounded much better than it did before, and as always am frustrated at Devialet for not adding some sort of convolution in the amp itself.

Anyway, so I decided to just play with SAM before I disabled it again.

You know what, combined with room correction my first impression was - wow! Completely unexpected, but the extra low bass that the facts put out just got me closer to that 'impact' I was longing for. Whereas previously I couldn't really sense the bass change much, but I felt the soundstage shrunk, the effect here was music just floating from the speakers.

I played with different percentages, and settled on about 30-40. The results meant I could disable a slight extra bass hump PEQ I'd added in Roon (to try and get that slam), and with better results. I played a couple of electronic tracks so loud things went pretty surreal but one thing was absolute - bass impact was way better and sound just floated around me.

So, is the room correction cleaning up my bass peaks and letting SAMs work shine through where previously it was masked? Is it because it's hot today in London? Or as a side effect is it because all the windows and doors are open in the house? Or is it just the 250 Pro can better drive the low frequencies to the facts and I hadn't given it a chance? Or a combination of all things.

Maybe I'll wake up tomorrow and it will all have been a dream, but today those speakers went low. No I wasn't getting a 'in a club' sensation of bass hitting my stomach, but it's the best it's been. Food for thought and for more experimentation. Just goes to show it pays to play.

Maybe long term I won't like it but I'll definitely be putting SAM through its paces with an open mind the next few weeks. It might just have won me over. I can't tell you how unexpected this was.

What I did notice, was after a good thrashing the copper plate was pretty hot. I very occasionally feel behind the amp and think - what's all the fuss about with the new copper plate, it never gets hot. I know it was warm today but that was cooking, I guesswith SAM it has to work a bit harder?
Interesting observation Hifi. I've often thought (without any proof) that those who don't like SAM probably have a room issue when SAM is being used. It will be interesting to see what your future findings are.
(06-Jul-2017, 22:03)Hifi_swlon Wrote: [ -> ][...]
So, is the room correction cleaning up my bass peaks and letting SAMs work shine through where previously it was masked? Is it because it's hot today in London? Or as a side effect is it because all the windows and doors are open in the house? Or is it just the 250 Pro can better drive the low frequencies to the facts and I hadn't given it a chance? Or a combination of all things.
[...]

Not using room correction I cannot comment on this aspect. However, when I upgraded from my D120 to the D220pro, the difference of power definitely improved greatly the bass compartment and it is consistent with what someone at Devialet told me when I was discussing the benefits of the upgrade: He told me that having more power will be much better for SAM. 

If you remember an other quote from an other Devialet Engineer who was mentioned in one of the threads when the new pro line was released, he was saying something like: "the ideal would be to have infinite power".

So given how SAM is working, I truly think that the more power you have, the closer to ideal driving of the woofers SAM can be and therefore the extra power is certainly a good contributor for this improvement.

Jean-Marie
(07-Jul-2017, 08:30)Jean-Marie Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-Jul-2017, 22:03)Hifi_swlon Wrote: [ -> ][...]
So, is the room correction cleaning up my bass peaks and letting SAMs work shine through where previously it was masked? Is it because it's hot today in London? Or as a side effect is it because all the windows and doors are open in the house? Or is it just the 250 Pro can better drive the low frequencies to the facts and I hadn't given it a chance? Or a combination of all things.
[...]

Not using room correction I cannot comment on this aspect. However, when I upgraded from my D120 to the D220pro, the difference of power definitely improved greatly the bass compartment and it is consistent with what someone at Devialet told me when I was discussing the benefits of the upgrade: He told me that having more power will be much better for SAM. 

If you remember an other quote from an other Devialet Engineer who was mentioned in one of the threads when the new pro line was released, he was saying something like: "the ideal would be to have infinite power".

So given how SAM is working, I truly think that the more power you have, the closer to ideal driving of the woofers SAM can be and therefore the extra power is certainly a good contributor for this improvement.

Jean-Marie

I found that the bass was much more powerful with the OdA than with the 200 with SAM for both turned off. With SAM on, the difference is smaller. There's still a lot of bass with the 200 but just a bit more again with the OdA. 

To say it in another way; more power has a bigger impact (on the bass) with SAM off than on.
Yesterday I got my 20 year old Harlechs SAM'd at Oxford Audio Consultancy by the guys from Devialet Paris. In addition I got to indulge myself with a pair of Sabrina's played through a 250 Pro, which was very enjoyable for me but not sure about the rest of the shop. Anyway, having finished, the Devialet guys told me that the file would be ready next week from the online database. However, Jon sent me the finished file by email and I loaded it last night. 

The coherence and clarity of the music seems to have been enhanced and the detail also appears much better. The whole musical package seems to be better balanced. I have still no complete idea of the SAM technology but it appears to balance the Devialet music stream with the speakers. That's all lot of 'seems' and 'appears' but this is a subjective sport! Anyway, I am pretty happy. 

I have to stop as this dialogue box is behaving like a Telex machine circa 1974!
Yesterday I got my 20 year old Harlechs SAM'd at Oxford Audio Consultancy by the guys from Devialet Paris. In addition I got to indulge myself with a pair of Sabrina's played through a 250 Pro, which was very enjoyable for me but not sure about the rest of the shop. Anyway, having finished, the Devialet guys told me that the file would be ready next week from the online database. However, Jon sent me the finished file by email and I loaded it last night. 

The coherence and clarity of the music seems to have been enhanced and the detail also appears much better. The whole musical package seems to be better balanced. I have still no complete idea of the SAM technology but it appears to balance the Devialet music stream with the speakers. That's all lot of 'seems' and 'appears' but this is a subjective sport! Anyway, I am pretty happy. 

I have to stop as this dialogue box is behaving like a Telex machine circa 1974!
(07-Jul-2017, 15:58)Gerronwithit Wrote: [ -> ]Yesterday I got my 20 year old Harlechs SAM'd at Oxford Audio Consultancy by the guys from Devialet Paris. In addition I got to indulge myself with a pair of Sabrina's played through a 250 Pro, which was very enjoyable for me but not sure about the rest of the shop. Anyway, having finished, the Devialet guys told me that the file would be ready next week from the online database. However, Jon sent me the finished file by email and I loaded it last night. 

The coherence and clarity of the music seems to have been enhanced and the detail also appears much better. The whole musical package seems to be better balanced. I have still no complete idea of the SAM technology but it appears to balance the Devialet music stream with the speakers. That's all lot of 'seems' and 'appears' but this is a subjective sport! Anyway, I am pretty happy. 

I have to stop as this dialogue box is behaving like a Telex machine circa 1974!
I´ve been trying SAM with my speakers too.
I have them for two or three months but just yesterday i saw that SAM is available for them (last week wasn´t yet).
... and i fill the same: i´m glad in general but remains a lot of "seems" and "appears".
Time is needed.
(06-Jul-2017, 22:03)Hifi_swlon Wrote: [ -> ]You know what, combined with room correction my first impression was - wow! 

I've used SAM with room correction for a long time. I enable SAM at 100% and do the measurement with SAM. I feel I get most out of it all this way. Up till now I have used the SAM profile for Atohm GT1 plus some parameric EQ. I recently got my speakers SAM'ed and the overall result is even better. I also use no PEQ at the moment, however Roon recently changed RAAT to use TCP instead of UDP. With a microRendu this sounds much better in  mids and treble, but the bass is not quite as good as before. I hope Roon developers will fix bass quality in due course.
(10-Jul-2017, 09:09)ogs Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-Jul-2017, 22:03)Hifi_swlon Wrote: [ -> ]You know what, combined with room correction my first impression was - wow! 

I've used SAM with room correction for a long time. I enable SAM at 100% and do the measurement with SAM. I feel I get most out of it all this way. Up till now I have used the SAM profile for Atohm GT1 plus some parameric EQ. I recently got my speakers SAM'ed and the overall result is even better. I also use no PEQ at the moment, however Roon recently changed RAAT to use TCP instead of UDP. With a microRendu this sounds much better in  mids and treble, but the bass is not quite as good as before. I hope Roon developers will fix bass quality in due course.


I used it this way also, SAM 100%, measurement and go with it. Sounds superb using roon, in my case! The only thing is, i also play records and then it's not possible to use digital room correction this way... That's the reason why i am looking for physical room correction where possible.
(10-Jul-2017, 10:09)Bartype Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-Jul-2017, 09:09)ogs Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-Jul-2017, 22:03)Hifi_swlon Wrote: [ -> ]You know what, combined with room correction my first impression was - wow! 

I've used SAM with room correction for a long time. I enable SAM at 100% and do the measurement with SAM. I feel I get most out of it all this way. Up till now I have used the SAM profile for Atohm GT1 plus some parameric EQ. I recently got my speakers SAM'ed and the overall result is even better. I also use no PEQ at the moment, however Roon recently changed RAAT to use TCP instead of UDP. With a microRendu this sounds much better in  mids and treble, but the bass is not quite as good as before. I hope Roon developers will fix bass quality in due course.


I used it this way also, SAM 100%, measurement and go with it. Sounds superb using roon, in my case! The only thing is, i also play records and then it's not possible to use digital room correction this way... That's the reason why i am looking for physical room correction where possible.

A bit OT in Hifi_swlon's thread, but I am in the exact same situation. I want to play vinyl, but not without digital room correction. Devialet has not fulfilled it's promise to introduce convolution in the DSP (where it belongs IMHO), however there is hope as Roon is working on an 'input device' that will let you send digital audio from 'somwhere' on your lan (presumably via RAAT) to Roon core and distribute it normally from there. Link to the Roon forum here: https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-as...aybe/11077
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