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Full Version: Is the Phantom still bad for a home theater?
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New member here. I tried out the Phantoms a few weeks ago at the showroom here in NYC and I loved them. I'm thinking of getting a pair of them for the TV, and later getting another 2 as rear channel.

From what I understand, the Dialog doesnt support anything more than stereo yet right?

I also saw from some older reviews that the Phantom doesn't work well for TV because theres a noticeable amount of latency. So noticeable that lips on the screen look out of sync with the audio. Is that still true?
Yes and yes. The lip sync issue can be avoided using VLC or similar.
Damn :\

I really liked the Phantom Gold I tried out too. Being able to use a pair for both TV and just music would've made me feel better about the price.

Also just found the home cinema thread, so I'm catching up on that. (https://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?tid=1169)
(21-Jul-2017, 21:00)PandaSPUR Wrote: [ -> ]New member here. I tried out the Phantoms a few weeks ago at the showroom here in NYC and I loved them. I'm thinking of getting a pair of them for the TV, and later getting another 2 as rear channel.

From what I understand, the Dialog doesnt support anything more than stereo yet right?

I also saw from some older reviews that the Phantom doesn't work well for TV because theres a noticeable amount of latency. So noticeable that lips on the screen look out of sync with the audio. Is that still true?

Unfortunately they are not great for home theater in my opinion. I really tried to make it work, but in the end I missed the proper .1 channel (LFE) and in order to get satisfying volume/impact out of the speakers I needed to turn the volume quite high. But then I had another problem, while there was some pretty good mid bass punch, the highs were too hard and bright for me. Some scenes simply hurt my ears.

Recently went back to a 2.2 system with proper subwoofers and the golds dont compare at all. But for the size and it being a stereo set up they are fine. Can't expect a proper home cinema experience with speakers this size.

I didn't have lip sync issue's when they were connected to my tv or beamer. Only noticed it when I connected them to my pc monitor.
(21-Jul-2017, 22:37)Cyral Wrote: [ -> ]
(21-Jul-2017, 21:00)PandaSPUR Wrote: [ -> ]New member here. I tried out the Phantoms a few weeks ago at the showroom here in NYC and I loved them. I'm thinking of getting a pair of them for the TV, and later getting another 2 as rear channel.

From what I understand, the Dialog doesnt support anything more than stereo yet right?

I also saw from some older reviews that the Phantom doesn't work well for TV because theres a noticeable amount of latency. So noticeable that lips on the screen look out of sync with the audio. Is that still true?

Unfortunately they are not great for home theater in my opinion. I really tried to make it work, but in the end I missed the proper .1 channel (LFE) and in order to get satisfying volume/impact out of the speakers I needed to turn the volume quite high. But then I had another problem, while there was some pretty good mid bass punch, the highs were too hard and bright for me. Some scenes simply hurt my ears.

Recently went back to a 2.2 system with proper subwoofers and the golds dont compare at all. But for the size and it being a stereo set up they are fine. Can't expect a proper home cinema experience with speakers this size.

I didn't have lip sync issue's when they were connected to my tv or beamer. Only noticed it when I connected them to my pc monitor.


It’s not that the Gold’s don’t compare. It’s literally what you said. They weren’t receiving the proper LFE channel. Which is a problem when it comes to balancing out the overall sound. The highs are too bright because of the same issue. The correct channels aren’t being decoded properly. And rather just becoming a mash of everything.

The Gold’s would truly outperform most Home Cinema setups. Including some (some) actual cinemas. Just depends how it’s being done.

Devialet have been showing Phantom home theatre off for a while and the way they execute it is astonishing. Really takes my breath away. It just takes quite a bit of extra components to do atm which is why it’s been held up. It needs to be practical before release. But once it does launch you’ll have a hard time comparing it to much else.

What they eventually want to do is have something like an all in one Dialogue which will do. Connectivity (Wi-Fi, optical, Bluetooth, HDMI) as well as the processing and decoding of the cinema audio. All channels being send out properly to the intended Phantom. With that all in one unit also doing the processing for each Phantom and setting a ‘maximum’ output level of them so Devialet can remove the current processing method from the Phantom itself (without risk of blowing the speakers by having no SAM real time monitoring enabled) and have the all in one unit do that processing but in a way that it’s pre-determined so we can have 0 sync issues and still have a safe and well performing system.

In time. It’ll come. In time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
(21-Jul-2017, 23:40)kmjy Wrote: [ -> ]
(21-Jul-2017, 22:37)Cyral Wrote: [ -> ]
(21-Jul-2017, 21:00)PandaSPUR Wrote: [ -> ]New member here. I tried out the Phantoms a few weeks ago at the showroom here in NYC and I loved them. I'm thinking of getting a pair of them for the TV, and later getting another 2 as rear channel.

From what I understand, the Dialog doesnt support anything more than stereo yet right?

I also saw from some older reviews that the Phantom doesn't work well for TV because theres a noticeable amount of latency. So noticeable that lips on the screen look out of sync with the audio. Is that still true?

Unfortunately they are not great for home theater in my opinion. I really tried to make it work, but in the end I missed the proper .1 channel (LFE) and in order to get satisfying volume/impact out of the speakers I needed to turn the volume quite high. But then I had another problem, while there was some pretty good mid bass punch, the highs were too hard and bright for me. Some scenes simply hurt my ears.

Recently went back to a 2.2 system with proper subwoofers and the golds dont compare at all. But for the size and it being a stereo set up they are fine. Can't expect a proper home cinema experience with speakers this size.

I didn't have lip sync issue's when they were connected to my tv or beamer. Only noticed it when I connected them to my pc monitor.


It’s not that the Gold’s don’t compare. It’s literally what you said. They weren’t receiving the proper LFE channel. Which is a problem when it comes to balancing out the overall sound. The highs are too bright because of the same issue. The correct channels aren’t being decoded properly. And rather just becoming a mash of everything.

The Gold’s would truly outperform most Home Cinema setups. Including some (some) actual cinemas. Just depends how it’s being done.

Devialet have been showing Phantom home theatre off for a while and the way they execute it is astonishing. Really takes my breath away. It just takes quite a bit of extra components to do atm which is why it’s been held up. It needs to be practical before release. But once it does launch you’ll have a hard time comparing it to much else.

What they eventually want to do is have something like an all in one Dialogue which will do. Connectivity (Wi-Fi, optical, Bluetooth, HDMI) as well as the processing and decoding of the cinema audio. All channels being send out properly to the intended Phantom. With that all in one unit also doing the processing for each Phantom and setting a ‘maximum’ output level of them so Devialet can remove the current processing method from the Phantom itself (without risk of blowing the speakers by having no SAM real time monitoring enabled) and have the all in one unit do that processing but in a way that it’s pre-determined so we can have 0 sync issues and still have a safe and well performing system.

In time. It’ll come. In time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, I agree that having the channels being decoded would surely help. But even when the channels are decoded properly, they will not hit subwoofer levels of bass, at high volume they won't be able to produce hz in the lower freq range with authority.

The high's were also too bright for me with music, so I think that isn't a fair argument when talking about home cinema performance.

Comparing the Phantom Golds with a subwoofer set up is comparing apples and oranges. However, I must say there's no alternative this small with the amount of bass the Phantoms can produce. (for music absolutely plenty)
(22-Jul-2017, 00:27)Cyral Wrote: [ -> ]
(21-Jul-2017, 23:40)kmjy Wrote: [ -> ]
(21-Jul-2017, 22:37)Cyral Wrote: [ -> ]Unfortunately they are not great for home theater in my opinion. I really tried to make it work, but in the end I missed the proper .1 channel (LFE) and in order to get satisfying volume/impact out of the speakers I needed to turn the volume quite high. But then I had another problem, while there was some pretty good mid bass punch, the highs were too hard and bright for me. Some scenes simply hurt my ears.

Recently went back to a 2.2 system with proper subwoofers and the golds dont compare at all. But for the size and it being a stereo set up they are fine. Can't expect a proper home cinema experience with speakers this size.

I didn't have lip sync issue's when they were connected to my tv or beamer. Only noticed it when I connected them to my pc monitor.


It’s not that the Gold’s don’t compare. It’s literally what you said. They weren’t receiving the proper LFE channel. Which is a problem when it comes to balancing out the overall sound. The highs are too bright because of the same issue. The correct channels aren’t being decoded properly. And rather just becoming a mash of everything.

The Gold’s would truly outperform most Home Cinema setups. Including some (some) actual cinemas. Just depends how it’s being done.

Devialet have been showing Phantom home theatre off for a while and the way they execute it is astonishing. Really takes my breath away. It just takes quite a bit of extra components to do atm which is why it’s been held up. It needs to be practical before release. But once it does launch you’ll have a hard time comparing it to much else.

What they eventually want to do is have something like an all in one Dialogue which will do. Connectivity (Wi-Fi, optical, Bluetooth, HDMI) as well as the processing and decoding of the cinema audio. All channels being send out properly to the intended Phantom. With that all in one unit also doing the processing for each Phantom and setting a ‘maximum’ output level of them so Devialet can remove the current processing method from the Phantom itself (without risk of blowing the speakers by having no SAM real time monitoring enabled) and have the all in one unit do that processing but in a way that it’s pre-determined so we can have 0 sync issues and still have a safe and well performing system.

In time. It’ll come. In time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, I agree that having the channels being decoded would surely help. But even when the channels are decoded properly, they will not hit subwoofer levels of bass, at high volume they won't be able to produce hz in the lower freq range with authority.

The high's were also too bright for me with music, so I think that isn't a fair argument when talking about home cinema performance.

Comparing the Phantom Golds with a subwoofer set up is comparing apples and oranges. However, I must say there's no alternative this small with the amount of bass the Phantoms can produce. (for music absolutely plenty)


I’ve watched movies with a Phantom cinema setup and it absolutely does produce the lower frequencies with as much, if not more authority than a subwoofer. I picked my own movies and damn was it impressive. People say the Phantoms can’t hit even a solid 20Hz at higher volume levels but I’m not sure on what basis. In all my experiences they play from 20 all the way up very very impactfully. I’ve had my White Phantom’s vibrating the house on those lower frequencies. And even the ones I can’t hear. Can feel it. But I do suppose it depends on the setup. And environment. And locations and all of that.

For cinema each Phantom is delivering the equivalent of two subwoofers worth of bass (and the reason I say subwoofers is because they are actually subwoofers, there’s some really advanced technology going on behind those domes), and those drivers together are heading up past 17” in diameter. You add a second or third or fourth Phantom and you’re essentially adding another 2, 4 or 6 subwoofers if you wanna look at it that way. Sounds outrageous but really adds an impact. The setup I got the privilege to mess with was 7 Silver Phantom’s. Three front. Two side. Two back. Setup with Devialet’s method. It was breathtaking. Gold’s being twice as powerful as Silvers, having 25% more woofer excursion, and a more advanced range of output I would think even a four Gold setup would be incredible. Capable of those lows. No problems. I think in my listening environment two would be fine and I’d be more than happy with the bass output. But diversity in preference is what makes this field so enjoyable. Smile

The highness is fair. Although in my experience the environment and positioning makes a big impact on how Phantom’s sound. A very very big impact.

The thing about these Phantom’s is that unless they’re being fed the absolute right source they’re not putting out their full potential of sound. With the right source that bass will thicken up incredibly. You may notice with a dedicated LFE track heading into Phantom the range of bass may increase. As well as the depth and thickness. And authority of sound. I’ve noticed this in the past.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
(22-Jul-2017, 01:15)kmjy Wrote: [ -> ]I’ve watched movies with a Phantom cinema setup and it absolutely does produce the lower frequencies with as much, if not more authority than a subwoofer. I picked my own movies and damn was it impressive. People say the Phantoms can’t hit even a solid 20Hz at higher volume levels but I’m not sure on what basis. In all my experiences they play from 20 all the way up very very impactfully. I’ve had my White Phantom’s vibrating the house on those lower frequencies. And even the ones I can’t hear. Can feel it. But I do suppose it depends on the setup. And environment. And locations and all of that.

For cinema each Phantom is delivering the equivalent of two subwoofers worth of bass (and the reason I say subwoofers is because they are actually subwoofers, there’s some really advanced technology going on behind those domes), and those drivers together are heading up past 17” in diameter. You add a second or third or fourth Phantom and you’re essentially adding another 2, 4 or 6 subwoofers if you wanna look at it that way. Sounds outrageous but really adds an impact. The setup I got the privilege to mess with was 7 Silver Phantom’s. Three front. Two side. Two back. Setup with Devialet’s method. It was breathtaking. Gold’s being twice as powerful as Silvers, having 25% more woofer excursion, and a more advanced range of output I would think even a four Gold setup would be incredible. Capable of those lows. No problems. I think in my listening environment two would be fine and I’d be more than happy with the bass output. But diversity in preference is what makes this field so enjoyable. Smile

The highness is fair. Although in my experience the environment and positioning makes a big impact on how Phantom’s sound. A very very big impact.

The thing about these Phantom’s is that unless they’re being fed the absolute right source they’re not putting out their full potential of sound. With the right source that bass will thicken up incredibly. You may notice with a dedicated LFE track heading into Phantom the range of bass may increase. As well as the depth and thickness. And authority of sound. I’ve noticed this in the past.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You keep mentioning you've seen the Phantoms in a proper cinema setup, is this something Devialet has actively been showing off/working on? If so, could you provide me with some links and reading material?

Right now I'm thinking of doing Sources > HDMI matrix switch w/ separate optical out > Dialog + Projector.
Kind of hoping the inherent delay from using a projector vs a TV will help with the audio delay. If not, I will use a PC as the main source for movies and manually adjust the delay values.

TBH I'm leaning towards getting a proper setup with some DefTech speakers, but the girlfriend really likes how the phantoms look and hate how typical home theater speakers look lol.
(22-Jul-2017, 01:33)PandaSPUR Wrote: [ -> ]
(22-Jul-2017, 01:15)kmjy Wrote: [ -> ]I’ve watched movies with a Phantom cinema setup and it absolutely does produce the lower frequencies with as much, if not more authority than a subwoofer. I picked my own movies and damn was it impressive. People say the Phantoms can’t hit even a solid 20Hz at higher volume levels but I’m not sure on what basis. In all my experiences they play from 20 all the way up very very impactfully. I’ve had my White Phantom’s vibrating the house on those lower frequencies. And even the ones I can’t hear. Can feel it. But I do suppose it depends on the setup. And environment. And locations and all of that.

For cinema each Phantom is delivering the equivalent of two subwoofers worth of bass (and the reason I say subwoofers is because they are actually subwoofers, there’s some really advanced technology going on behind those domes), and those drivers together are heading up past 17” in diameter. You add a second or third or fourth Phantom and you’re essentially adding another 2, 4 or 6 subwoofers if you wanna look at it that way. Sounds outrageous but really adds an impact. The setup I got the privilege to mess with was 7 Silver Phantom’s. Three front. Two side. Two back. Setup with Devialet’s method. It was breathtaking. Gold’s being twice as powerful as Silvers, having 25% more woofer excursion, and a more advanced range of output I would think even a four Gold setup would be incredible. Capable of those lows. No problems. I think in my listening environment two would be fine and I’d be more than happy with the bass output. But diversity in preference is what makes this field so enjoyable. Smile

The highness is fair. Although in my experience the environment and positioning makes a big impact on how Phantom’s sound. A very very big impact.

The thing about these Phantom’s is that unless they’re being fed the absolute right source they’re not putting out their full potential of sound. With the right source that bass will thicken up incredibly. You may notice with a dedicated LFE track heading into Phantom the range of bass may increase. As well as the depth and thickness. And authority of sound. I’ve noticed this in the past.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You keep mentioning you've seen the Phantoms in a proper cinema setup, is this something Devialet has actively been showing off/working on? If so, could you provide me with some links and reading material?

Right now I'm thinking of doing Sources > HDMI matrix switch w/ separate optical out > Dialog + Projector.
Kind of hoping the inherent delay from using a projector vs a TV will help with the audio delay. If not, I will use a PC as the main source for movies and manually adjust the delay values.

TBH I'm leaning towards getting a proper setup with some DefTech speakers, but the girlfriend really likes how the phantoms look and hate how typical home theater speakers look lol.


They showed it off at a few audio conversations, you could go in and mess with it. And some of their flagship stores still have the cinema listening area. It has both a setup of Phantom’s with a proper decoding setup. And an Expert amplifier with ordinary speakers. And they compare the two in there.

I got to really test it properly when the dealer close to me temporarily had it all set up (7 Phantom’s in cinema) and had a special order from Devialet the decoding equipment they were using. But they had to send it back. Was incredible.

It is something Devialet are actively working on. But as I said this is something worth doing right before launch and currently their setup for theatre is a bit complicated.
They’re going to need either a new Decoder bridge to go into the network to do all the necessary processing or a firmware update to Dialogue (depending on the capabilities of Dialogue). Currently Dialogue is just a director and commander. Not a processor. Phantom’s process all audio internally. No matter if they’re in a pair or not. Dialogue just streamlines that to say this Phantom gets this. This one gets this. Then they do the work themselves and send timing information back and forth with Dialogue and themselves to stay times and synced. So either Dialogue is incapable of high end processing or since it’s already not being used for that it has power to spare to potentially do theatre processing.

From what I know they want to have a HDMI input so I would suspect a special decoder would make sense. Something that pairs in with Phantom’s and Dialogue and takes all the audio input and splits it correctly to each Phantom and does all the processing/speaker protection on its end specifically for theatre. This would also create zero delay as that little bridge will handle the levels of output each Phantom can have. Temporarily removing a real time SAM monitor of the incoming audio which generally causes the delay. While Dialogue does it’s own ordinary things.

That’s similar to how Devialet are doing it currently in their demonstrations. But with a bit more complexity. It’s not consumer friendly currently.

That idea is not a problem but you won’t get the true audio decoding of a theatre setup as Phantom’s/Dialogue currently don’t support that. Even if the source is being sent in say 7.2. It will all get mixed into a stereo output and won’t have necessary balancing. I hope there won’t be any delay.

Yeah, that’s the tough thing with them. They’re extraordinary for their compactness and design. But of course. Can always go for a traditional setup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
(22-Jul-2017, 02:05)kmjy Wrote: [ -> ]
(22-Jul-2017, 01:33)PandaSPUR Wrote: [ -> ]
(22-Jul-2017, 01:15)kmjy Wrote: [ -> ]I’ve watched movies with a Phantom cinema setup and it absolutely does produce the lower frequencies with as much, if not more authority than a subwoofer. I picked my own movies and damn was it impressive. People say the Phantoms can’t hit even a solid 20Hz at higher volume levels but I’m not sure on what basis. In all my experiences they play from 20 all the way up very very impactfully. I’ve had my White Phantom’s vibrating the house on those lower frequencies. And even the ones I can’t hear. Can feel it. But I do suppose it depends on the setup. And environment. And locations and all of that.

For cinema each Phantom is delivering the equivalent of two subwoofers worth of bass (and the reason I say subwoofers is because they are actually subwoofers, there’s some really advanced technology going on behind those domes), and those drivers together are heading up past 17” in diameter. You add a second or third or fourth Phantom and you’re essentially adding another 2, 4 or 6 subwoofers if you wanna look at it that way. Sounds outrageous but really adds an impact. The setup I got the privilege to mess with was 7 Silver Phantom’s. Three front. Two side. Two back. Setup with Devialet’s method. It was breathtaking. Gold’s being twice as powerful as Silvers, having 25% more woofer excursion, and a more advanced range of output I would think even a four Gold setup would be incredible. Capable of those lows. No problems. I think in my listening environment two would be fine and I’d be more than happy with the bass output. But diversity in preference is what makes this field so enjoyable. Smile

The highness is fair. Although in my experience the environment and positioning makes a big impact on how Phantom’s sound. A very very big impact.

The thing about these Phantom’s is that unless they’re being fed the absolute right source they’re not putting out their full potential of sound. With the right source that bass will thicken up incredibly. You may notice with a dedicated LFE track heading into Phantom the range of bass may increase. As well as the depth and thickness. And authority of sound. I’ve noticed this in the past.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You keep mentioning you've seen the Phantoms in a proper cinema setup, is this something Devialet has actively been showing off/working on? If so, could you provide me with some links and reading material?

Right now I'm thinking of doing Sources > HDMI matrix switch w/ separate optical out > Dialog + Projector.
Kind of hoping the inherent delay from using a projector vs a TV will help with the audio delay. If not, I will use a PC as the main source for movies and manually adjust the delay values.

TBH I'm leaning towards getting a proper setup with some DefTech speakers, but the girlfriend really likes how the phantoms look and hate how typical home theater speakers look lol.


They showed it off at a few audio conversations, you could go in and mess with it. And some of their flagship stores still have the cinema listening area. It has both a setup of Phantom’s with a proper decoding setup. And an Expert amplifier with ordinary speakers. And they compare the two in there.

I got to really test it properly when the dealer close to me temporarily had it all set up (7 Phantom’s in cinema) and had a special order from Devialet the decoding equipment they were using. But they had to send it back. Was incredible.

It is something Devialet are actively working on. But as I said this is something worth doing right before launch and currently their setup for theatre is a bit complicated.
They’re going to need either a new Decoder bridge to go into the network to do all the necessary processing or a firmware update to Dialogue (depending on the capabilities of Dialogue). Currently Dialogue is just a director and commander. Not a processor. Phantom’s process all audio internally. No matter if they’re in a pair or not. Dialogue just streamlines that to say this Phantom gets this. This one gets this. Then they do the work themselves and send timing information back and forth with Dialogue and themselves to stay times and synced. So either Dialogue is incapable of high end processing or since it’s already not being used for that it has power to spare to potentially do theatre processing.

From what I know they want to have a HDMI input so I would suspect a special decoder would make sense. Something that pairs in with Phantom’s and Dialogue and takes all the audio input and splits it correctly to each Phantom and does all the processing/speaker protection on its end specifically for theatre. This would also create zero delay as that little bridge will handle the levels of output each Phantom can have. Temporarily removing a real time SAM monitor of the incoming audio which generally causes the delay. While Dialogue does it’s own ordinary things.

That’s similar to how Devialet are doing it currently in their demonstrations. But with a bit more complexity. It’s not consumer friendly currently.

That idea is not a problem but you won’t get the true audio decoding of a theatre setup as Phantom’s/Dialogue currently don’t support that. Even if the source is being sent in say 7.2. It will all get mixed into a stereo output and won’t have necessary balancing. I hope there won’t be any delay.

Yeah, that’s the tough thing with them. They’re extraordinary for their compactness and design. But of course. Can always go for a traditional setup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ah ok. I did some searching too. Wish there was more info out there (like a price or ETA...)

Knowing that there will eventually be a solution for home theaters makes me want to get a pair for now and wait it out.

Thanks for all the info
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