Devialet Chat

I came to realize my USB cable has many things dangling on it - jitterbug, sbooster isolator, Regen, sbooster for Regen, etc. I start to hope some smart guy would simply and mesh them all together. Or, the money spent would been better to just get a nicer USB cable.

(08-Jan-2016, 00:03)Hifi_swlon Wrote: [ -> ]Can't wait to hear.  I read an article about it by chance but it seems quite under the radar - I guess because it's not designed for audio specifically.

It seemed quite expensive, but I guess it depends how it sounds.

I'll let you/you guys know!

The Intona had been on my radar for quite some time, it's been in a pre-order stage quite long, but only recently the first user experiences came to surface and these are quite positive irt sound quality improvements. One has to be a bit careful though, the Intona is more than a transformer based isolator and actually an active device that even contains two FPGA's that of course need to be powered. It can provide up to 300mA without voltage drop but will drop the 5V to 4.5V when supplying 500mA, this because it's USB bus powered (no external PSU) and has to power it's own circuitry as well. This could cause compatibility issues with certain equipment that requires a full 500mA. Knowing what I know now about the Devialet it should work with the Intona.

Correct the Intona has not been specifically created for audio purposes. It was actually quite refreshing to see/read about a product without all the regular high-end audio BS. 

There's a very interesting post from Daniel the CEO of Intona here in which he answers our typical audiophile questions and compares the Intona to the Regen: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac...post493372

It isn't cheap (€250/$229 for standard version, €344/$319 for industrial version) but I think it is a cost effective way to retrofit full galvanic isolation to any USB device, the thing that's been sorely missing in most DAC's with USB inputs including our Devialets.

(08-Jan-2016, 02:53)warpeon Wrote: [ -> ]I came to realize my USB cable has many things dangling on it - jitterbug, sbooster isolator, Regen, sbooster for Regen, etc. I start to hope some smart guy would simply and mesh them all together. Or, the money spent would been better to just get a nicer USB cable.

Haha, I know and understand "your pain"!   Just for fun I made a list below of the USB enhancing/related products that came to my mind. These all, in their own ways, try to improve the shortcomings of USB as an interface for high-end audio. I'm hoping the Intona will make all these obsolete.

I'm quite sure that in the future any and all will become osbolete when more and more DAC developers start to implement their own measures to keep noise out of the USB input. Same of course has also happened for S/PDIF.


Intona USB Isolator

Uptone Audio Regen
iFi iUSB3.0
Wyred4Sound Recovery
under development: Lakewest Audio USB Detox, Qualia Physic Q921stt

Jitterbug

Sbooster Isolator (disconnects +5V only)
USB Disruptor (disconnects +5V and injects a new +5V)

Dual headed USB cables that allow one to inject clean +5V
A whole range of +5V power sources from linear PSU, super capacitor to battery based

USB cables with integrated filters (like TotalDAC D1)
Optical USB cables (like Adnaco and Corning)

Mutec MC-3+ Smart Clock USB

Dedicated high quality USB interfaces to build into a computer (SoTM, JCAT, PPA Studio)

Hi Antoine,

How have things been going with your Intona USB Isolator ? Are you happy with the SQ ?
Have you considered adding a Mutec MC-3+ USB to remove the residual jitter ?

The Intona is highly recommended!

For now I'm running it in place of the Regen, so it's music server with JCAT USB interface powered by JCAT battery PSU -> Curious Regen link (0.2m) -> Intona USB Isolator -> Curious USB cable 0.8m -> D250.

I did run into an issue. I first used the short Curious link between the Intona and the D250 but there were pops and ticks that increased with higher bit rate music files. After a troubleshooting session I found out that these pops/ticks completely disappeared if I used the short Curious cable before the Intona.

Positives:
- Clarity/less distortion, another veil lifted. More detail is coming through/is discernable, without sounding analytical
- Better, more natural highs/treble
- More air, better separation of voices and instruments without losing coherence
- larger 3D soundstage in all dimensions without blowing things up to unnatural proportions
- Better timbre reproduction, better microdynamics/longer decays for improved musicality and induction of goosebumps

Not sure yet about the bass performance. The Regen seemed to provide a fuller, more powerful sub bass. It could be though that it's simply a tighter/dryer bass now. This could also be because of me powering all using the JCAT battery, linear PSU's are often said to give a more powerful sound character and I powered the Regen using a linear PSU.

Very happy with it but not selling the Regen yet, later I want to try it after the Intona. Some people seem to prefer this setup for added naturality, some seem to prefer it without the Regen. Inserting the Regen again defeats part of the galvanic isolation unless of course one powers it using a battery PSU. The upcoming Regen PSU (should be released somewhere in a few months) should be bery interesting as it seems to provide galvanic isolation, at least Alex of Uptone Audio hinted at this/said it will.

I've read a lot about the Mutec MC-3+ USB and I would like to try it in the future. It's too expensive (~1000 euro) for me to just take the gamble it'll be a keeper so I need to find a dealer that's willing to lend me a demo unit but since it's targeted at a pro audio audience this might prove difficult. No hurries though here, there's still much I'd like to explore first and I like to enjoy listening to music in between as well! ;-)

Thank you for the detailed answer. 

On my side, I received an Intona too. I could not connect it in the chain before the Mutec because of slight compatibility issues on which Intona is working at the moment. So I have it in parallel to the Mutec (USB input in the Devialet, when the Mutec in on AES input) and I share your view that it is improving musicality significantly. 
Not to the point of the Mutec in my opinion, which is producing very consistent although not exaggerated bass. And the soundstage seems even wider and also deeper, with a fantastic separation of the instruments/voices IMHO.

When you will be ready for a test, I found a distributor in Germany who offers 30 days money back guarantee on the Mutec (http://www.thomann.de/gb/helpdesk_moneyback.html). Not a invitation from me to spend money anyhow...

Earlier this week I've sold my Uptone Audio Regen, it didn't work together with the Intona USB Isolator so I've never been able to determine if both were better in series. The Intona itself easily outperformed the Regen, no doubt about it.

I can retract my earlier remark about reduced bass. What happened is still unknown to me but in the process of trying out the Regen after the Intona I had to switch back from Server 2012 Core mode to GUI and back again. This time I also reinstalled Fidelizer Pro from scratch. Either this, touching/reconnecting the Curious cables,  or simple (but sudden) burn-in completion restored bass performance in full.

Today I took a day off and bought myself a Mutec MC-3+ USB (http://www.mutec-net.com/product_mc-3-plus-usb.php). I've just connected it and like 'Our' wrote my Intona doesn't work with it as well, without the Intona it works immediately. I've tried multiple different USB cables but no luck so I'll have to email Intona about this. If it can't be fixed the Intona may have to go if the Mutec proves to be even better. So far I've listened to it, cold out of the box, for about 15 minutes and I like what I'm hearing thus far. Of course I'll take a lot more time to form a real opinion on it.

The dealer gave me a free 1m Sommer 'Binary 234' AES/EBU interconnect so I'm using that right now as well as the standard power cable from the box. I may have to go hunt for replacements for both!

The chain now is: music server with JCAT USB interface powered by JCAT battery PSU -> Curious USB cable 0.8m -> Mutec MC-3+ USB -> Sommer AES/EBU 1.0m -> D250

I've now also disabled the USB input of the D250. AIR ethernet and WiFi were already disabled. The only inputs active now are the AES/EBU, one stereo RCA input for surround from my TagMcLaren pre/pro, Toslink (for TV). And there's a stereo RCA output as a pre-out to my DSpeaker AntiMode DC 2.0/subwoofer.


Bad picture of it on my AV cabinet. I'll somehow have to find some place for it inside of the cabinet, it's a bit full though.
[attachment=926]

Antoine - I think it is very interesting to read that you have partnered a Mutec MC-3 together with what is already an impressive digital source, with a fully optimised PC, Windows server, JCat USB interface, and so on. This I think provides a fairly stern test of what the Mutec can achieve, if it can grant audible improvements on top of what is already a top quality source, then this would be very impressive indeed.

What you are doing is fairly similar to that posted by "Gentleman" (Jan) last year, who is running a trick multi-box (multi-power supply) audio optimised PC via Mutec to a Devialet. Now he's a lovely chap Jan, I had the pleasure of meeting him at a dealer event last year and he was very interesting to talk to. However, he was very evangelistic regarding the Mutec, and to be honest I was never quite sure if he was recommending it or trying to sell me one!

So I for one will be fascinated to hear if you get any sound quality improvements with the Mutec in the chain. (I'm sure a few other will too) Take your time evaluating, but keep us posted!

Hi Confused, thank you for your post! I'd be happy to share my findings as always with you guys.

The more I read about the Mutec the more I wanted to try it. I managed to hold it off for some time but eventually had to succumb. I do realize that this hunt for better performance and the speed of progress made in computer audio (especially those surrounding the "horrible" USB interface ;-)) holds the risk of always wanting to buy the latest & greatest or as some put it: the flavour of the month.

I do see a clear evolution in my purchases though, later also following the introduction of technical advances, and tried the following:
- mid level USB cable (Audioquest Carbon)
- dual headed USB cable with battery PSU (Kingrex)
- higher quality USB interface in PC (JCAT USB interface, JCAT/Bakoon battery powered)
- filtered USB cable (TotalDAC D1 cable)
- USB repacketize/impedance matching/injection of cleaned 5V power (Uptone Audio Regen)
(sidestep: Curious USB cables)
- full USB galvanic isolation/repacketizing of USB packets/impedance matching, cleaned up 5V power (Intona USB Isolator, industrial version)
- galvanic isolation, USB->AES/EBU conversion and thus bypassing the Devialet internal USB converter, high quality reclocking of AES3, S/PDIF signal (Mutec MC-3+ USB)

To do: determine if the Intona adds or detracts to/from the SQ provided by the Mutec. The Intona probably needs a factory installed firmware update first.

I've tried to make as little side steps as possible, like eg. replacing the Regen with a device providing similar functionality like a Wyred4Sound Recovery USB. With this I've hopefully been careful enough to not "fix the fix" through minor changes in functionality.

In hindsight could/should I have directly gone to the Mutec (which is a stayer) like Jan/"Gentleman" did (I believe he even tested Mutec MC-3+ USB prototypes)? Absolutely! But I then would have learned little and would not have had the fun in discovering myself. I really am a music lover but also have the 'nerd genes' so like the tinkering as well.

So far I like the Mutec very much. I'll provide more detail on my findings later (still forming an opinion) but at least it gives me as much as I had with the Intona plus more. It wasn't jaw dropping though thus far. I feel the Intona was a bigger step up from Regen. However I certainly recognize qualitative improvements I can now probably no longer do without (would I switch back). The amount of information extracted from recordings for example is simply stunning.

It's weird though, I feel a little bad about no longer using any of the Devialet's 'modern' digital inputs (USB, ethernet, WiFi) now since I use the Mutec as a USB->AES converter. In hindsight I could say the upgrade from D-Premier to 250 specs has been an expensive "waste" in a way, being more expensive than all items on above list combined. Not counting resale value here of course and also not really sorry about it, it's just a feeling.

(21-Feb-2016, 15:47)Antoine Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Confused, thank you for your post! I'd be happy to share my findings as always with you guys.

The more I read about the Mutec the more I wanted to try it. I managed to hold it off for some time but eventually had to succumb.  I do realize that this hunt for better performance and the speed of progress made in computer audio (especially those surrounding the "horrible" USB interface ;-)) holds the risk of always wanting to buy the latest & greatest or as some put it: the flavour of the month.

I do see a clear evolution in my purchases though, later also following the introduction of technical advances, and tried the following:
- mid level USB cable (Audioquest Carbon)
- dual headed USB cable with battery PSU (Kingrex)
- higher quality USB interface in PC (JCAT USB interface, JCAT/Bakoon battery powered)
- filtered USB cable (TotalDAC D1 cable)
- USB reclocker/impedance matching (Uptone Audio Regen)
(sidestep: Curious USB cables)
- USB galvanic isolation/reclocker/impedance matching (Intona USB isolation)
- High quality reclocking, galvanic isolation, bypassing the Devialet internal USB converter (Mutec MC-3+ USB)

To do: determine if the Intona adds or detracts to/from the SQ provided by the Mutec.

I've tried to make as little side steps as possible, like eg. replacing the Regen with a device providing similar functionality like a Wyred4Sound Recovery USB. With this I've hopefully been been careful enough to not "fix the fix" through minor changes in functionality.

In hindsight could/should I have directly gone to the Mutec (which is a stayer) like Jan/"Gentleman" did (I believe he even tested Mutec MC-3+ USB prototypes)? Absolutely! But I then would have learned little and would not have had the fun in discovering myself. I really am a music lover but also have the 'nerd genes' so like the tinkering as well.

So far I like the Mutec very much. I'll provide more detail on my findings later (still forming an opinion) but at least it gives me as much as I had with the Intona plus more.  It wasn't jaw dropping though thus far. I feel the Intona was a bigger step up from Regen. However I certainly recognize qualitative improvements I can now probably no longer do without (would I switch back). The amount of information extracted from recordings for example is simply stunning.

It's weird though, I feel a little bad about no longer using any of the Devialet's 'modern' digital inputs (USB, ethernet, WiFi) now since I use the Mutec as a USB->AES converter. In hindsight I could say the upgrade from D-Premier to 250 specs has been an expensive "waste" in a way, being more expensive than all items on above list combined. Not counting resale value here of course and also not really sorry about it, it's just a feeling.

Hi Antoine,

Congratulations on your purchase. Hope you will enjoy it :-)

I checked out the Mutec web site after reading Jan's comments here, I bought one too after reading Karl-Heinz Fink's comments on their web site.
I have not used it much yet but I did not think t was a risky purchase given the quality of the engineering.

It does seem like a reversion to D-Premier in any ways! I used my Metric Halo recorder as a firewire to AES/EBU converter on that, and HDMI for TV and films.
I have never tried the USB input on my 800.