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Hi,

I'm going to buy a new turntable. Does anyone have any listen experience from the top Pro - ject models such as Signature 10, Xtension 12 or PRM 10 carbon (NEW). Which is the best option with Cadenza Black cartridge and Devialet 200 (SF Olympica 2 speakers)?

Thank you for your advice
I own a Pro-ject Signature 12.  Before I bought it I managed to audition a number of turntables, including Rega RP10, a top spec Roxan Xerxes, Michele Orb with SME V, and yes, a Pro-Ject Signature 10.  All were auditioned with the Cadenza Black, D800 and KEF Blade.

Although I ultimately bought the Pro-ject Signature 12, I could see good points in the alternatives.  After all, this was a case of comparing very good turntables with other very good turntables.  

The thing I liked about the Signature turntables is that they seamed to have a very coherent presentation, the alternatives were there with detail, but somehow the Signatures managed to provide the detail but keep the whole sense of the music together.  Compared to the alternatives , I would say the Signatures were also a little more 'full bodied', a slightly more magnificent presentation, dynamic, digging out those lowest register notes.  (I do hope this makes sense!)  The Roxan and Rega maybe had a slight edge with those very finest details.

In the context of your question, it is interesting that as I short listed the alternatives, the Pro-ject Signature 10 was my clear second favourite behind only the Signature 12.  This makes it a bit of a bargain in my view, as the Roxan was a lot more expensive.

I spent some time comparing the Signature 10 with the Signature 12, all I can say is that they were very close indeed.  Compared to the 12, the drop in price to the 10 is substantially greater than the drop in performance.  In terms of the coherence and solidity of presentation I mention, I would say the 10 and 12 are more or less identical, the 12 just edges ahead in digging out the finer details.  I very nearly bought the 10.

I have not listened to the new RPM 10 Carbon, so I can make no comment here.  

As an aside, there was an Ortofon cartridge demonstration event at Oxford Audio last year.  The event demonstrated cartridges from the very cheapest up to the new Ortofon Windfeld Ti.  This demo used the Signature 10, which was easily good enough to highlight the differences between the Cadenza Black and the Windfeld Ti, which retails for £3100 in the UK.

As a slightly informed hunch, I suspect the Signature 10 would be a good match for the Olympica II's.  If you can get the chance to try one it would be well worth the effort I think.

Edit:

This is quite a good review.  It is curious that the reviewer spends a lot of time criticising various design details, then ends up saying that the sound quality is excellent.  Broadly speaking, I agree with the sound quality observations.

http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/projec...ure_e.html
hi Confused. Reading your comment it seems that the Michell Orbe with SME V did not make a big impression on you. Was your audition with the regulated power supply?
(31-Jan-2018, 20:12)Stino Wrote: [ -> ]hi Confused. Reading your comment it seems that the Michell Orbe with SME V did not make a big impression on you. Was your audition with the regulated power supply?

Not that I recall, no it was not.  Plus, I would have to say that the Orb / SME is a very good turntable.  I think there are some euphonic factors with turntables and for some reason I personally seam to have a leaning towards high mass turntables rather than fully suspended.  I was lucky enough to listen to an Avid turntable with the Blades once.  I was not exactly blown away by it, and this was a beast worth over £20k.
(31-Jan-2018, 21:10)Confused Wrote: [ -> ]
(31-Jan-2018, 20:12)Stino Wrote: [ -> ]hi Confused. Reading your comment it seems that the Michell Orbe with SME V did not make a big impression on you. Was your audition with the regulated power supply?

Not that I recall, no it was not.  Plus, I would have to say that the Orb / SME is a very good turntable.  I think there are some euphoric factors with turntables and for some reason I personally seam to have a leaning towards high mass turntables rather than fully suspended.  I was lucky enough to listen to an Avid turntable with the Blades once.  I was not exactly blown away by it, and this was a beast worth over £20k.

Thanks. I can understand your preference. I hope you will have one day the opportunity to listen to a VPI Prime. Have a feeling you will like such a table very much.
(31-Jan-2018, 18:20)Confused Wrote: [ -> ]I own a Pro-ject Signature 12.  Before I bought it I managed to audition a number of turntables, including Rega RP10, a top spec Roxan Xerxes, Michele Orb with SME V, and yes, a Pro-Ject Signature 10.  All were auditioned with the Cadenza Black, D800 and KEF Blade.

Although I ultimately bought the Pro-ject Signature 12, I could see good points in the alternatives.  After all, this was a case of comparing very good turntables with other very good turntables.  

The thing I liked about the Signature turntables is that they seamed to have a very coherent presentation, the alternatives were there with detail, but somehow the Signatures managed to provide the detail but keep the whole sense of the music together.  Compared to the alternatives , I would say the Signatures were also a little more 'full bodied', a slightly more magnificent presentation, dynamic, digging out those lowest register notes.  (I do hope this makes sense!)  The Roxan and Rega maybe had a slight edge with those very finest details.

In the context of your question, it is interesting that as I short listed the alternatives, the Pro-ject Signature 10 was my clear second favourite behind only the Signature 12.  This makes it a bit of a bargain in my view, as the Roxan was a lot more expensive.

I spent some time comparing the Signature 10 with the Signature 12, all I can say is that they were very close indeed.  Compared to the 12, the drop in price to the 10 is substantially greater than the drop in performance.  In terms of the coherence and solidity of presentation I mention, I would say the 10 and 12 are more or less identical, the 12 just edges ahead in digging out the finer details.  I very nearly bought the 10.

I have not listened to the new RPM 10 Carbon, so I can make no comment here.  

As an aside, there was an Ortofon cartridge demonstration event at Oxford Audio last year.  The event demonstrated cartridges from the very cheapest up to the new Ortofon Windfeld Ti.  This demo used the Signature 10, which was easily good enough to highlight the differences between the Cadenza Black and the Windfeld Ti, which retails for £3100 in the UK.

As a slightly informed hunch, I suspect the Signature 10 would be a good match for the Olympica II's.  If you can get the chance to try one it would be well worth the effort I think.

Edit:

This is quite a good review.  It is curious that the reviewer spends a lot of time criticising various design details, then ends up saying that the sound quality is excellent.  Broadly speaking, I agree with the sound quality observations.

http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/projec...ure_e.html

Many thanks for the excellent description. I have listened to Signature 10 but with Sumiko Blackbird cartridge. I think the cadenza black is better than Sumiko. I think will buy the signature 10 all though i'd like to signature 12 but it s very expensive for me
Hi confused, i myself are interested in the Rega RP10 (with apheta 2 then), from which you stated gives even a little more detail then the Pro-jects. Wasn't the Rega an option compared to the Signature 12, because they are price-wise?
(01-Feb-2018, 13:50)Bartype Wrote: [ -> ]Hi confused, i myself are interested in the Rega RP10 (with apheta 2 then), from which you stated gives even a little more detail then the Pro-jects. Wasn't the Rega an option compared to the Signature 12, because they are price-wise?

If I recall correctly, I auditioned the RP10 and the Pro-ject Signature 10 back to back on the same day.  Both were good and I can recall to this day being impressed by the detail extraction of the RP10, easily in the same league as the twice the price Xerxes.  (and RP10 is easier to pronounce)  It really is a personal preference thing.  It would be overly harsh to describe the RP10 as sounding 'thin', but this is perhaps the best way to convey the difference to the Pro-ject Signature, in relative terms it did sound a little thin.  Oddly enough, I can recall the conversation I had with one of the guys at OAC during the audition.  Regarding the RP10 he said something along the lines of 'with some stand mount speakers in a smaller room this thing would be unbeatable'.  I could understand exactly what he was saying.  Searching through the forum, I did find these words that I posted nearer the time I actually had these auditions.


One suggestion I would make is to take a look at the Pro-Ject Signature 10.  I know Pro-Ject have a bit of a "king of budget turntables" reputation, but do not let that put you off, the Signature range is very good by any standards.  (I much preferred it in comparison to a top spec Xerxes, amongst others)  In the UK the Sgnature 10 is offered with an Ortofon Cadenza Black for £1000, which makes it a bit of a bargain.  (Relatively speaking)  Although I have no idea if such an offer is available where you are.


Of those on your list, I have listened to the RP10 with a Devilalet.  For me, I preferred the Pro-Ject, very coherent, with particularly solid bass (one aspect that really differentiated it from other options).  Having said that, looking at your music preferences, I think that you may well like the RP10.  The RP10 was just about the cheapest deck I auditioned but for detail extraction, timing etc the thing was outstanding.
Thank you Confused. For now i had to buy a car, so the turntable has to wait. Cool

Maybe later this year, i will dive deeper into the material. It would be great if Devialet would do something with DRC, now with the CI board. This to be able to use it with vinyl...
I own several turntables, none of them is project. I don’t know much about them and I bet they are very good.
My favorite turntable is still the Linn LP12.
I enjoying listening to it on daily bases and never got tired. Some of my other turntable has more details deeper bass or better image but overall its the linn I choose to listen to the most
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