Devialet Chat

Much kudos to @alandbush , who exactly predicted the error I made yesterday.  Oddly enough, I recalled reading @LupusAlpha 's instructions "Select 'Measure' and make sure you have the same parameters (sweep length, aso) you selected for generating the sweep."  Relaxed over dinner last night, my subconscious brain recalled that I had fiddled with the measurement frequency range, that must be it I thought.  Later I read the post above and felt a bit of an idiot.  Oh well....  Anyway, I tried again this morning and I have some results, and very interesting results they are too.  

Having fixed yesterday's issue, I tried to generate a curve using the SOtM kit, this worked fine.  To get a quick comparison, I ran the system again using Roon AIR.  This showed very little divergence from the SOtM curve.  I then went through all the hassle of re-installing the mR into the rig, retried the test, and again, not much in it.  In the bass region the curvers show virtually zero difference, the screen shot below is mid-range up, this does show some divergence but considering the absolute accuracy of the test, I would say there is nothing in it.  Note the colours, Roon AIR red, mR green, SOtM blue.  In the very highest frequencies, say 6kHz and upwards, the green and blue lines (mR and SOtM) run virtually on top of each other, even if you zoom in.

[attachment=2729]

So in other words, maybe I think the SOtM kit sounds brighter, but it does not measure brighter.  This is perhaps no surprise and backs up the 'bits are bits' argument, but of course it does not answer the question as to why the HF of the SOtM kit irritates me in a way that Roon AIR and the mR does not.  What it does do is eliminate the thought that the SOtM kit is somehow intrinsically brighter and indicate the issue is elsewhere.  I have a few ideas as to what the issue might be, I will report back if I find anything.  Meanwhile, there is no need for anyone to mention SMPS's, the Gui test is planned.....

I have to say I am quite pleased with the above result.  @thumb5 posted about how objective measurements can help with the troublesome psychology of subjective listening, we will see how this one works out!  Irrespective of this, the result has given me clarity as to what to do next.  After this diversion, it is now back to the original plan, "operation listen to lots of music." 

“Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.” - Einstein

If take two violins they can sound different but frequency would measure the same. Many factors cannot be seen in a simple frequency curve, or maybe cannot be measured at all.


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To bad you are in England @Confused and I am i Sweden otherwise I would have brought my two SR4 over for you to try with the SOtM kit.

(31-Mar-2018, 12:11)zdenes Wrote: [ -> ]“Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.” - Einstein

Agreed.  In audio, a great deal of what counts but can't be counted is between the ears.

(31-Mar-2018, 12:27)octaviars Wrote: [ -> ]To bad you are in England @Confused and I am i Sweden otherwise I would have brought my two SR4 over for you to try with the SOtM kit.

Hey octaviars, Sweden is not so far, just stick them in the post, they will be here in no time.  I promise to send them back, eventually.

Joking apart, one thing I do have is a 12v 3A Lithium Ion battery pack.  I did try this briefly when the SOtM kit was new, but I think I will try it again when I am more used to everything.  I realise that batteries are not ideal for powering audio equipment, something like the SR4 will have considerably lower ow output impedance for example, but it might just give me an idea of how a change of power might influence things.

I did have a cunning plan to use the sMS-500 to power my PC.  This plan faded a bit when I checked the power brick that feeds my PC, it is rated at 19.5v 7.69A.  (150w)  The sPS-500 is rated at 19v 3.3A, so not powerful enough I think.  This is my fault for getting an 'all in one' style PC.  I actually like it a lot, it suits me well, but having the screen built into the PC is not the best idea.  For those that are now going to chime in stating this is ruining my audio experience, when I sit down for a listening session, the iPad is in control and the screen shuts down after a few minutes.  It does mean that it pulls a lot of power though, and I think I will get something different when it needs replacing.  That said, an all in one 24" touchscreen PC does make an excellent Roon server/interface, it is actually really nice.

(31-Mar-2018, 13:05)thumb5 Wrote: [ -> ]

(31-Mar-2018, 12:11)zdenes Wrote: [ -> ]“Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.” - Einstein

Agreed.  In audio, a great deal of what counts but can't be counted is between the ears.

Further agreed, and what I am finding today is that what can be counted helps with what little is going on between my ears.  I am always fascinated by some of the online battles you get between 'objectivists' and 'subjectivists', because for me, you need to be both.  Afterall, you need to listen to understand what those objective measurements, good and bad, actually sound like.  One thing that is clear to me is just how powerful psychology can be with audio, ignore it at your peril.  This is something I learned a while ago, but recent events per this thread have served as an excellent reminder of this to me.

(31-Mar-2018, 14:17)Confused Wrote: [ -> ]

(31-Mar-2018, 12:27)octaviars Wrote: [ -> ]To bad you are in England @Confused and I am i Sweden otherwise I would have brought my two SR4 over for you to try with the SOtM kit.

Hey octaviars, Sweden is not so far, just stick them in the post, they will be here in no time.  I promise to send them back, eventually.

Joking apart, one thing I do have is a 12v 3A Lithium Ion battery pack.  I did try this briefly when the SOtM kit was new, but I think I will try it again when I am more used to everything.  I realise that batteries are not ideal for powering audio equipment, something like the SR4 will have considerably lower ow output impedance for example, but it might just give me an idea of how a change of power might influence things.

I did have a cunning plan to use the sMS-500 to power my PC.  This plan faded a bit when I checked the power brick that feeds my PC, it is rated at 19.5v 7.69A.  (150w)  The sPS-500 is rated at 19v 3.3A, so not powerful enough I think.  This is my fault for getting an 'all in one' style PC.  I actually like it a lot, it suits me well, but having the screen built into the PC is not the best idea.  For those that are now going to chime in stating this is ruining my audio experience, when I sit down for a listening session, the iPad is in control and the screen shuts down after a few minutes.  It does mean that it pulls a lot of power though, and I think I will get something different when it needs replacing.  That said, an all in one 24" touchscreen PC does make an excellent Roon server/interface, it is actually really nice.

@Confused Try a Windows Surface computers. I use mine currently as a Roon server and the interface is just amazing and practical. It looks neat while resting on it's kick stand with the keyboard detached. During playback everything is controlled via my iPad and at that time the Surface is powered by it's battery hence less risk of power pollution.

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(31-Mar-2018, 12:11)zdenes Wrote: [ -> ]“Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.” - Einstein

If take two violins they can sound different but frequency would measure the same. Many factors cannot be seen in a simple frequency curve, or maybe cannot be measured at all.


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+1 absolutely. It’s what happens in your brain that counts so what you have reported regarding brightness you don’t like is probably absolutely correct...... its possibly oonly specific and relevant to you.

How about getting a few astute mates around to listen with you. I have often found that really helpful. I have several friends who seem to hear things as I do. Their input, over the years has been invaluable.

(31-Mar-2018, 21:21)Greg Wrote: [ -> ]

(31-Mar-2018, 12:11)zdenes Wrote: [ -> ]“Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.” - Einstein

If take two violins they can sound different but frequency would measure the same. Many factors cannot be seen in a simple frequency curve, or maybe cannot be measured at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

+1 absolutely. It’s what happens in your brain that counts so what you have reported regarding brightness you don’t like is probably absolutely correct...... its possibly oonly specific and relevant to you.

How about getting a few astute mates around to listen with you. I have often found that really helpful. I have several friends who seem to hear things as I do. Their input, over the years has been invaluable.

Yes, I agree.  Oddly enough, I have one friend who tends to hear things I do not.  This can be particularly useful, and often when they have pointed out what they are hearing, I can then spot it myself.  OK, some might argue that this kind of input might just be feeding expectation bias, but what I find is that you might be focusing too much on one aspect yourself, and therefore completely missing something else.

As for @zdenes point, I think it does relate perfectly to what I have been experiencing lately.  I have been perceiving increased treble when none is there, or at least none can be measured.  Plus I think it is not just me, remember I posted about Steve Plaskin review of the Sonore Signature Rendu versus the SOtM ultra bundle where he refers to the microRendu's 'somewhat dark sound'.   I have compared the mR to the SOtM bundle and I too found the mR to sound "darker", but in terms of frequency response I have measured to two and found them more or less identical.  So something else is going on, I am not saying it cannot be measured, but it would certainly need something very sophisticated indeed to measure it, and then be very difficult to understand the results.

As an interim update, I have definitely been suffering from some kind of new kit neurosis combined with some kind of psychoacoustic effect regarding the treble.  Just knowing that the SOtM kit measures the same treble response as the mR has allowed me to relax about this issue and focus on other things, and all of a sudden I am realising just how good the SOtM kit is.  @thumb5 was right about the psychoacoustics and "brain reboot", it just took some hard measurements for my brain to react.

In fact the system is sounding mighty fine today, I am really enjoying it and only now discovering what the SOtM kit adds to the musical presentation.

One other thing yesterday, when pulling the kit out of the rack yesterday to swap the mR back in for measurements, I noticed that the XLR cable from the Devialet to the Mutec was not properly engaged in the Mutec's socket.  I have done a lot of cable swapping over the last couple of weeks so I am not sure when I did this.  Maybe this has helped to cure the treble issue?  Maybe an extra bit of burn in has helped?  I have genuinely put many more hours on the SOtM kit over the last couple of days and it is widely reported that the SOtM kit benefits from 400 hours burn in.  Who knows, maybe the XLR connection was actually exacerbating the treble issue, but my money is on the brain reboot.

Whatever the reason, I am a very happy boy right now.  Back to the tunes!

(01-Apr-2018, 12:01)Confused Wrote: [ -> ]In fact the system is sounding mighty fine today, I am really enjoying it and only now discovering what the SOtM kit adds to the musical presentation.

Have mercy on us @Confused

What a journey!

Happy for u. Enjoy ur system and the music

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