(07-Dec-2019, 09:19)baconbrain Wrote: [ -> ]Hypothetical Situation:
You want to test the acceleration of two cars. The first car looks and sounds really fast, has a massive marketing campaign behind it, promoted by professional race car drivers, etc. The second car looks and sounds like an older family car and is more or less unknown. Unknown to you, both cars accelerate from 0 to 60 at exactly the same time.
Which car will „feel“ faster?
The lighter one
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(07-Dec-2019, 05:46)Snoopy8 Wrote: [ -> ] (06-Dec-2019, 22:28)thumb5 Wrote: [ -> ]If we're trying to find out whether the ER does something objectively "real", listening reports are not evidence unless they are carried out under controlled conditions and are repeatable to some pre-defined degree of statistical significance. Otherwise they are insignificant (to that particular question) especially as most (all?) of them so far come from a group that is self-selected for a bias towards expecting a sonic improvement.
Isn't audio about personal listening experience? Having evidence based experiments under controlled conditions and making statistical significant claims on audio improvements of any audio product belongs to the realm of a university research thesis. Listening to music is an emotional experience which I enjoy; definitely not a scientific experiment.
Yes, of course it is, which is why I was careful to qualify my comments by saying that I am not denying what people hear. The point you make is one I've expressed many times elsewhere on this forum.
The discussion prompted by @
David A's comment which I replied to was about whether the ER has some objective effect that can be measured, which is a completely different proposition. In fact it was David who brought the science -- or his perceived lack of it -- into this discussion a few posts back. My point is that is not fair to criticise an objective measurement for being less than fully rigorous if you fail to apply the same standards to the claims being made by UpTone for the ER. In other words, if you want science you should use it impartially to prove those claims; this would indeed involve a detailed research project, which, obviously, ain't gonna happen.
(07-Dec-2019, 09:48)David A Wrote: [ -> ]Having said that, @thumb5 is somewhat dismissive of the reports users make on the basis that they are reports from a self selected group of people with a "bias towards expecting a sonic improvement". There's nothing one can do at the moment about self selection when the only people who have had a real chance to hear the device have only been able to do so because they bought the one they're listening to and the company is still in the process of filling all of the orders received since they released the product. One can equally question whether there's selection bias involved in any group of individuals who participate in a listening test, especially if that test is conducted by someone who strongly believes or disbelieves in the product.
Be honest, David, if you criticised ASR's measurement for being non-scientific, how can you happily accept uncontrolled, anecdotal, sighted listening reports from a group of people who have been "in on" the development of the ER and by all accounts were so eager to buy one that the first batch of production sold out in minutes? Would you not agree that they had a very high susceptibility to expectation and confirmation bias?
(07-Dec-2019, 09:48)David A Wrote: [ -> ]I doubt we're ever going to see a listening test that he would be completely happy with, simply because that sort of test is extremely expensive to set up and conduct and it's hard to get access to the budget and facilities required for such a test unless there is a compelling reason to conduct the test.
Agreed. Probably more to the point, who would fund such a test? The only people who would benefit would be UpTone and then only if the test gave a positive result. It is a very high risk for them to take in case the test produced a negative result.
(07-Dec-2019, 09:48)David A Wrote: [ -> ]Self selection should raise a flag but it doesn't guarantee that the reports it proves are less reliable than other reports.
Self selection certainly does mean these reports are unreliable if you want to distinguish the behaviour of the ER from placebo. On the other hand, if you're interested in hearing stories about what people hear, of course the self-selection is irrelevant.
(07-Dec-2019, 09:50)no32 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-Dec-2019, 09:19)baconbrain Wrote: [ -> ]Hypothetical Situation:
You want to test the acceleration of two cars. The first car looks and sounds really fast, has a massive marketing campaign behind it, promoted by professional race car drivers, etc. The second car looks and sounds like an older family car and is more or less unknown. Unknown to you, both cars accelerate from 0 to 60 at exactly the same time.
Which car will „feel“ faster?
The lighter one
+1
Btw, I took a ride in a Jeep SRT last week and although it weighed considerably more than my current personal ride, it felt brutally fast. Technically both accelerate from 0 to 60 at just about the same time (I believe one tenth of a second difference) but the Jeep has 230 more horsepower than mine.
The original picture is about cables but it workes with switches to
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I bought a etherREGEN and not going in to any listening impressions about it my main concern is the heat it produces it is really cooking. I wonder if it will last for long and if it does start to have problems over time (within the warranty) what will/can Uptone do about it?
Yes, that is a bit of a worry for any "boutique" device. Someone on another forum which shall remain nameless pointed out that the high temperatures were likely due to use of linear regulators to drop from the ~7V DC input to the 3.3V supply voltage for the digital parts, which seems reasonable. I wonder whether it could be run from a lower DC input, maybe 6V, or whether the regulators would drop out?
(07-Dec-2019, 12:40)octaviars Wrote: [ -> ]I bought a etherREGEN and not going in to any listening impressions about it my main concern is the heat it produces it is really cooking. I wonder if it will last for long and if it does start to have problems over time (within the warranty) what will/can Uptone do about it?
The manual does say it runs hot, 48-52C and Uptone are confident it will last!
Personally, I do not like electronics running that hot and would look at adding a heat sink and fan.
(07-Dec-2019, 12:40)octaviars Wrote: [ -> ]I bought a etherREGEN and not going in to any listening impressions about it my main concern is the heat it produces it is really cooking. I wonder if it will last for long and if it does start to have problems over time (within the warranty) what will/can Uptone do about it?
I recall that Uptone (or was it John Swenson?) recommended installing it vertically, claiming this gave better heat dissipation. Might be worth a try?
(07-Dec-2019, 13:17)thumb5 Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, that is a bit of a worry for any "boutique" device. Someone on another forum which shall remain nameless pointed out that the high temperatures were likely due to use of linear regulators to drop from the ~7V DC input to the 3.3V supply voltage for the digital parts, which seems reasonable. I wonder whether it could be run from a lower DC input, maybe 6V, or whether the regulators would drop out?
As we really dont know what exactly goes on inside and they use a DC/DC converter to feed the B-side regulators that wont produce much heat so much of the heat must come from the A-side components. I have tried feeding mine with both 7V and 12V and the heat is the same. It draws between 7-7.2W regardless of voltage.
(07-Dec-2019, 13:19)Snoopy8 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-Dec-2019, 12:40)octaviars Wrote: [ -> ]I bought a etherREGEN and not going in to any listening impressions about it my main concern is the heat it produces it is really cooking. I wonder if it will last for long and if it does start to have problems over time (within the warranty) what will/can Uptone do about it?
The manual does say it runs hot, 48-52C and Uptone are confident it will last!
Personally, I do not like electronics running that hot and would look at adding a heat sink and fan.
Yes I know this but heat is still the number one thing that causes electronics to fail and runing 24/7 at this heat well I am not that confident it will last.
(07-Dec-2019, 13:23)Confused Wrote: [ -> ] (07-Dec-2019, 12:40)octaviars Wrote: [ -> ]I bought a etherREGEN and not going in to any listening impressions about it my main concern is the heat it produces it is really cooking. I wonder if it will last for long and if it does start to have problems over time (within the warranty) what will/can Uptone do about it?
I recall that Uptone (or was it John Swenson?) recommended installing it vertically, claiming this gave better heat dissipation. Might be worth a try?
I have it vertically mounted in a fan cooled cabinet and yes the heat goes down a bit last time I checked it with IR it was around 45c it was around 48C laying down.
I still belives this would be better suited in a bigger case with vent holes so air could move around in the box.