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Full Version: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation
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I think it's awesome that the Bonn N8 switch resolves the Roon-Devialet problem at gigabit speed. I just wish I (or anyone) understood why some switches resolve it and others don't or why it works at 100mbps but not at gigabit speed. I will say that I tried a cheap gigabit switch between my router and my Expert Pro which did NOT fix the problem. But using a cheap 100 mbps switch is working just fine.

If I were to guess, a high quality switch such as the Bonn N8 (or those that @David A has tried) just does a better job of handshaking with the Expert Pro.
May be to do with differences in the flow control implementation...?
@mdconnelly

I don't think that the switches I've tried are necessarily "high quality" switches. They've all been quite basic unmanaged switches: a Netgear GS105, a D-Link (whatever their cheapest 5 port unmanaged switch was), and a Cisco SG110D-05) and the ethernet switch in the Orbi RB40 hub I use. The switches are all cheap switches. I don't think there's anything special about them and I would very much hesitate to say that they were in any way different to the cheap gigabit switches you tried which didn't work for you. I've ordered an EtherRegen but I didn't order it to fix this problem even though it will limit my connection to my 140 to 100 mbps, I ordered it in the hope that it would give me an improvement in sound quality.

I had been using a gigabit connection for a couple of months with RAAT before I struck the problem. I kept wondering what those with the problem were talking about because I wasn't getting it at all. I don't have any 24/192 content and I have one recording at 24/176.4 which had never had any problems. I decided to try having Roon upsample everything to 24/192 and I immediately got the problem. I turned upsampling off and it went away. I had to go out of my way to deliberately induce it in order to experience it. I tried swapping a few switches to see if the switch I had was involved and it didn't seem to be. I've also experimented with a direct ethernet connection between my Nucleus+ and my 140 and that made no difference with a gigabit speed connection. I still got problems with 24/192 and basically problem free at lower resolution with a gigabit connection. Even with 24/192 streaming, however, there were times when I had problem free performance for hours and times when it would occur every few minutes. There was no consistency in the frequency of the problem occurring.

Look, this issue got through testing from both Devialet and Roon during the Roon Ready certification stage and I don't think either company ignored it. I think it didn't show in their tests. It hasn't been mentioned in any of the reviews of Expert Pro amps that have appeared since certification so I think we can assume that none of the reviewers experienced it but they may not have been using a wired gigabit connection to the amps they tested. We've got some people here reporting it and some having a pretty problem free life with gigabit connections. Overall, from my reading here and also on the Roon forums, I'd guess that most Devialet users using a Roon Ready connection aren't seeing the problem for one reason or another. It's easy to think that a lot of people have the problem because there's a hell of a lot of posts involving it but take a look at the thread here about it and take a look at the number of people registered for this forum. Only a small proportion of forum members are posting in that thread and not everyone who has posted is reporting the problem. OK, a lot of forum members don't have Expert Pros and not all who do are using Roon, not all who use Roon are using a RAAT connection because many prefer the sound of AIR, and some are using wifi or 100 mbps wired connections, but my bet is that less than half of the Roon users using RAAT and a gigabit connection have reported the problem. If most were getting the problem then it would almost certainly have been discovered by Devialet and Roon during certification testing.

My guess is that there's more than one contributing factor. File resolution seems to be a factor but not everyone has the same experience with files of resolutions lower than 24/192. If file resolution was the only factor we'd all have the same experience at the same resolutions and that isn't the case. I don't think the problem is related to specific switches because I think we have people using the same switch, some with problems and some without. I can't think of any single distinct difference that can be found between those who are using a gigabit connection without problems and those who get problems with one. If there was a single common factor involved for everyone who had experienced the problem, identifying and fixing it would almost certainly have been done months ago.

In the meantime about the only thing that seems to guarantee a trouble free life under all circumstances with RAAT is avoiding a gigabit connection to the Devialet by either using a 100 mbps connection or wifi but at the same time using a gigabit connection doesn't guarantee that you will have problems. Gigabit connections can and do work well for some people and I don't think that it's the switch that people are using which determines whether or not the problem is going to occur.
I’m quite tempted by the EtherRegen or the Bonn N8, but to be honest, streaming from Roon to my Expert Pro using the cheap 100mbps switch sounds every bit as good as AIR at gigabit speed and has let me group zones with other Roon RAAT endpoints in my home over the holidays. So for now I think I’m going to leave well enough alone and just enjoy the music.

Bottom line, only Devialet is capable of fully troubleshooting and resolving it. Maybe someday they will.
(24-Oct-2019, 13:16)Peter van der Laarse Wrote: [ -> ]Hi all,

Review of the Silent Angel Bonn N8 in Dutch:

https://www.hifi.nl/artikel/28188/Review...tches.html

Google translate will help you all I think. 

I will soon buy one here:

https://www.kempelektroniksshop.nl/silen...witch.html

I know this shop well: I own a lot Kemp with Van den Hul mainstream equipment; my 230V is galvanic separated from the main and that's expensive (>€ 20k) with Rel subs and Devialet amplification. Kemp also offers a better power supply, even when Silent Angel says: don't do it.... W'll see,

Cheers,

Hey Peter, where did you read that Silent Angel Bonn n8 doesn't recommend an alternative power supply? Is it possible you could be confused with the AQVOX switch? I tried finding the source for your statement but couldn't find it anywhere.

I am asking you because initially I was wary of experimenting with changing the power supply on my Silent Angel after reading your statement. However last weekend I obtained a second hand Uptone LPS-1 and hooked it up to my Silent Angel and I have to say I was very pleasantly surprised! Next to other qualities usually heard with the Silent Angel, like improved sound stage, clarity, focus and tighter bass, the Uptone LPS-1 adds very organic, calm, dare I say, almost vinyl like quality to my system. With the original Silent Angel power supply the sound always remained a bit thin to my ears and I kept removing and returning it into my chain. With the LPS-1 I couldn't be happier!
That is good news. Thanks for sharing @kt66. I think the guys from Silent Angel (Thunder Data) were the source. They stated their switching power supply is so good it can hardly be improved upon for reasonable money. I too found the switch (when new) missed something. First hour or so, the highs were a bit muffled. Then the highs were a bit sharp for a day or what. Now the balance is just right. Detailed and very transparant without sounding thin. That said, I am always in for an experiment that can improve sound quality, so I recently e-mailed the Kemp company on this same question, and the founder replied by saying there were two linear power supplies they had tested that made a set with the Bonn N8 integrated sound even better; the Keces P3 (€400) and the Farad Super3 (€530) power supplies. He also said the Farad had an even better effect than the Keces and I read about changing the fuse in the Farad/Keces power supply for an hifi-tuning fuse for an even further extended effect. So if money is no object, there seems to be a positive effect by changing the power supply.
(26-Dec-2019, 17:47)kerkhoffd Wrote: [ -> ]That is good news. Thanks for sharing @kt66. I think the guys from Silent Angel (Thunder Data) were the source. They stated their switching power supply is so good it can hardly be improved upon for reasonable money. I too found the switch (when new) missed something. First hour or so, the highs were a bit muffled. Then the highs were a bit sharp for a day or what. Now the balance is just right. Detailed and very transparant without sounding thin. That said, I am always in for an experiment that can improve sound quality, so I recently e-mailed the Kemp company on this same question, and the founder replied by saying there were two linear power supplies they had tested that made a set with the Bonn N8 integrated sound even better; the Keces P3 (€400) and the Farad Super3 (€530) power supplies. He also said the Farad had an even better effect than the Keces and I read about changing the fuse in the Farad/Keces power supply for an hifi-tuning fuse for an even further extended effect. So if money is no object, there seems to be a positive effect by changing the power supply.

Hey! Thanks for sharing.

If money is no object, the new Melco S100 switch could be an option. It has a section with 100Mb ports and a section with 1Gb ports.

Only one of the gigabit ports is optimized for audio and Melco advises to use it for Roon (since Roon is heavy on the network). For connecting your 'audio' equipment they recommend to use the 100Mb ports. So no issue with the Devialet Smile

Ow yeah... it costs 2000 euros. Better gives a huge improvement in sound, but I believe many of us have better sound by spending the 2000 euros on room accoustics or so. My five cents...
(26-Dec-2019, 21:11)Stino Wrote: [ -> ]Hey! Thanks for sharing.

If money is no object, the new Melco S100 switch could be an option. It has a section with 100Mb ports and a section with 1Gb ports.

Only one of the gigabit ports is optimized for audio and Melco advises to use it for Roon (since Roon is heavy on the network). For connecting your 'audio' equipment they recommend to use the 100Mb ports. So no issue with the Devialet Smile

Ow yeah... it costs 2000 euros. Better gives a huge improvement in sound, but I believe many of us have better sound by spending the 2000 euros on room accoustics or so. My five cents...

You're right, you will get more for the 2000 Euros by spending it on room treatment, but after you've spent the 2000 Euros on room treatment and you've saved up another 2000 Euros?

I've got the room treatment and it cost me more than 2000 Euros and it made a big difference. Now I'm waiting to get my EtherRegen next month and I expect it to make a smaller difference than the room treatment did, but the differences we chase get smaller as the sound of our system improves, and we're always chasing an improvement.
Try the audioquest niagara 1200
If I wanted to spend another €2,000 or more, I would probably opt for the upgrade to Pro version first, then power conditioning (the Niagara 1200 or Shunyata solutions seem to do a nice job). Only then I would consider the power supply. It is as David A says. Some have all these things done, and the info might in come handy for them.