(19-Jul-2018, 12:34)Flashman Wrote: [ -> ]I see, too, that you suggest a cable change. I'll be thinking about that... 
@
Flashman
Yes, it seems rather boring and predictable, but I seconded @
Hifi_swlon 's suggestion because changing speaker cables made an important difference in my own system. And I was surprised that it did what I wanted, but happily it was a $600.00 fix, rather than another fix with more zeros on the wrong side of the decimal. Not sexy, but on target.
I also think @
Confused has a good point about the frequency range that may be relevant; the mids, rather than the treble. Listen to him, not me.
(19-Jul-2018, 02:53)Damon Wrote: [ -> ]@Flashman
I'm not able to talk about Lumin equipment, so I'm off topic pretty quickly. But.... some reviewers have commented that speakers like Vivid, or YG, can in fact be so precise that they do move away from a musical presentation. I'm not agreeing with that sentiment; just using it to support your own sense of the sound. But like Westminster's own man of mirth above, @Hifi_swlon, I agree that a cable change would be a good place to start. From my own limited experience, cables can 'tune' the sound of a system, and so I believe that you could get a bit of softness with different speaker cables, or other parts. I even think that the digital edge you hear would be related to the treble end of the spectrum, and that is (I think) the easier end to attenuate or adjust with cables.
As well, the Bluesound Node 2 is a decent product, a bit better than a stock Sonos Connect by the reports I've read. However, when I got a modded Sonos, the sound improvement was impressive. So, perhaps a different front end/ streaming source?
I think that many shops would lend out cables or bits from Aurilic or Aurender. I would definitely try the small, incremental steps first. And although you are handicapped by having 'only' a D200, you have a system that would certainly reveal any SQ changes that a cable change or streamer change yields.
Finally, I think the Pro upgrade is huge and wonderful, but I also accept that for some, it is not the SQ change they are after. That's a tough one to advise on.
My Devialet 800 YG system has more musically than any other system I ever owned ( and still own ) by big margin.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Having owned the Vivid Audio B1, now the B1 Decades and spending several hours listening to both the Giya G1 and the G1 Spirit driven by Devialets, I can assure you that "harsh" is not a term that can be used to describe the combo of Vivid and Devialet.
I once owned an Audiolab MDAC and used that in combination with a set of B&W805's with Audioquest cabling. It gave new meaning to the term "digital glare" and even the lowest of male voices had some form of sibilance. Changing from Audioquest to van den Hul made a significant difference and more so introducing elements of room acoustic treatment.
Remember the Vivids are very accurate speakers and the combination will never give you the "analogue" type sound you will get from Sonus Fabers driven by Pathos valves but it will never be harsh or digital. You will hear what was recorded, warts and all and a poor recording will be punished.
Something else must be wrong.
Listen to Nora Jones' Come Away With Me album, track no 3 - Cold Cold Heart and tell us what you hear. The entire album is a fantastic recording and this track should give you a good indication of what a properly recorded track should sound like.
By the way, when setting up your Vivids, start with this position in the diagram below and experiment with small tweaks from there onwards.
I ended up with my speakers around 2.7m apart and 2.6m from tweeter to ear.
Philip Guttentag, the co-owner of Vivid together with Dicky Lawrence, lives in South Africa and I talk to him regularly. Toe-in is important and he told me that they develop the speakers with quite a severe toe-in in mind. The speakers should cross right in front of your nose. In fact, when I attended the release of the G1 Spirits, they had them set up with an even greater toe-in. Also, if the V1.5's came with spikes, use them. The bass is much cleaner when the speakers are decoupled from the ground.
[
attachment=2983]
(19-Jul-2018, 22:41)Drifter Wrote: [ -> ]...Philip Guttentag, the co-owner of Vivid together with Dicky Lawrence, ...
Er, I know who you meant but for the record, isn't his name Laurence Dickie?
(20-Jul-2018, 07:13)thumb5 Wrote: [ -> ] (19-Jul-2018, 22:41)Drifter Wrote: [ -> ]...Philip Guttentag, the co-owner of Vivid together with Dicky Lawrence, ...
Er, I know who you meant but for the record, isn't his name Laurence Dickie?
Er, goes to show what getting older does to one’s recollections of names. Mr Dickie it is indeed.
(19-Jul-2018, 17:04)Damon Wrote: [ -> ] (19-Jul-2018, 12:34)Flashman Wrote: [ -> ]I see, too, that you suggest a cable change. I'll be thinking about that...
@Flashman
Yes, it seems rather boring and predictable, but I seconded @Hifi_swlon 's suggestion because changing speaker cables made an important difference in my own system. And I was surprised that it did what I wanted, but happily it was a $600.00 fix, rather than another fix with more zeros on the wrong side of the decimal. Not sexy, but on target.
I also think @Confused has a good point about the frequency range that may be relevant; the mids, rather than the treble. Listen to him, not me.
That's very kind Damon, but I like to think all voices and opinions should be heard and considered here! Anyway, a point to note, I was not suggesting a boost to the mids. Going back to the OP, it was mentioned that the system sounds "too digital". I know some people get a little upset by the term "too digital" because it usually relates to things that have nothing to do with "digital" at all. Digital, when implemented correctly, should simply sound pure and clean. That said, I fully understand what people actually mean when they say something sounds "too digital" or "more analogue", and in my experience the "digital" sound tends to be prominence in the presence band, so the bit a little below the treble region, but a long way above the mids. So maybe it is a small cut at about 5kHz, and a small boost at about 500Hz, that turns "digital sound" into "analogue sound". (obviously this will be very system dependent) Plus, this is easy enough to try if you have Roon's PEQ in your system. Of course, it the issues can be cured without PEQ this is by far the better way to go, but PEQ is simple, and cost-free if you have Roon already, so I think it is worth spending an hour or so experimenting.
(19-Jul-2018, 22:25)Drifter Wrote: [ -> ]Having owned the Vivid Audio B1, now the B1 Decades and spending several hours listening to both the Giya G1 and the G1 Spirit driven by Devialets, I can assure you that "harsh" is not a term that can be used to describe the combo of Vivid and Devialet.
I once owned an Audiolab MDAC and used that in combination with a set of B&W805's with Audioquest cabling. It gave new meaning to the term "digital glare" and even the lowest of male voices had some form of sibilance. Changing from Audioquest to van den Hul made a significant difference and more so introducing elements of room acoustic treatment.
Remember the Vivids are very accurate speakers and the combination will never give you the "analogue" type sound you will get from Sonus Fabers driven by Pathos valves but it will never be harsh or digital. You will hear what was recorded, warts and all and a poor recording will be punished.
Something else must be wrong.
Listen to Nora Jones' Come Away With Me album, track no 3 - Cold Cold Heart and tell us what you hear. The entire album is a fantastic recording and this track should give you a good indication of what a properly recorded track should sound like.
Drifter, thanks for your thoughts. Regarding your statement, which I put in
bold above, I think this is my central issue, probably exacerbated by
my choice of cable loom. I plan to try some different interconnects and maybe some DSP. As for the Vivid speakers, I have come to like them but must realize that their accurateness sometimes can be hard on poor recordings. Cheers, Michael
(20-Jul-2018, 07:33)Confused Wrote: [ -> ] (19-Jul-2018, 17:04)Damon Wrote: [ -> ] (19-Jul-2018, 12:34)Flashman Wrote: [ -> ]I see, too, that you suggest a cable change. I'll be thinking about that...
@Flashman
Yes, it seems rather boring and predictable, but I seconded @Hifi_swlon 's suggestion because changing speaker cables made an important difference in my own system. And I was surprised that it did what I wanted, but happily it was a $600.00 fix, rather than another fix with more zeros on the wrong side of the decimal. Not sexy, but on target.
I also think @Confused has a good point about the frequency range that may be relevant; the mids, rather than the treble. Listen to him, not me.
That's very kind Damon, but I like to think all voices and opinions should be heard and considered here! Anyway, a point to note, I was not suggesting a boost to the mids. Going back to the OP, it was mentioned that the system sounds "too digital". I know some people get a little upset by the term "too digital" because it usually relates to things that have nothing to do with "digital" at all. Digital, when implemented correctly, should simply sound pure and clean. That said, I fully understand what people actually mean when they say something sounds "too digital" or "more analogue", and in my experience the "digital" sound tends to be prominence in the presence band, so the bit a little below the treble region, but a long way above the mids. So maybe it is a small cut at about 5kHz, and a small boost at about 500Hz, that turns "digital sound" into "analogue sound". (obviously this will be very system dependent) Plus, this is easy enough to try if you have Roon's PEQ in your system. Of course, it the issues can be cured without PEQ this is by far the better way to go, but PEQ is simple, and cost-free if you have Roon already, so I think it is worth spending an hour or so experimenting.
@
Confused Agree totally with your comment in bold (my boldface).
I did test side by side M1 and D120.
Day and night difference. M1 lack openness, power and dynamic of D120.
Tested with Harbeth C7.