(29-Sep-2021, 17:06)markush Wrote: [ -> ]Wow - just did a recent test with Roon release 831 and the difference between RAAT and AIR are reasonable. It seems Roon treats the SAM setting differently - meaning needing a higher SAM % setting on AIR than ROON to be the same.
I have a high resolving HiFi system and tested this extensively.
Did someone experience the same?
I didn’t test it yet. Can’t make up what your favorite is, RAAT or Air?
You are using both with Roon right? So Roon RAAT vs Roon Air?
Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk
Yes sorry - both tested within Roon and switching between devices output in Roon.
Currently AIR seems to provide a better separation of instruments - but gonna more with SAM settings.
Was just quite excited to see AIR being that different - as it wasn’t in the past.
(29-Sep-2021, 08:14)thumb5 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't want to start an argument, and am not an apologist for Devialet, but the fact that there are problems with RAAT but not AIR over Gigabit Ethernet to a Devialet can equally be seen as evidence of a problem in the implementation of RAAT, albeit one which is triggered by some aspect of Devialet's Ethernet interface (software and/or hardware). It is the combination of RAAT, Devialet and a GbE physical link which results in incorrect behaviour, and isolating any single part of that combination as "the problem" is perhaps premature. Just for the sake of neutrality and balance...
You're right in a sense. RAAT apparently works without problems with Roon Ready devices from numerous other manufacturers but there's a problem with Devialet. That does indicate that it's a problem with the implementation of RAAT on Devialet devices but implementing RAAT on Devialet devices is Devialet's responsibility, just as implementing AIR within Roon was Roon's responsibility. Roon got AIR right when they introduced it in their software, Devialet did not get RAAT right when they introduced it and, as @
mdconnelly has stated, Devialet did acknowledge that it is their problem but it did take them several months to do so..
Roon is not entirely without responsibility in this. They have a certification process which is intended to ensure that manufacturers get the implementation of RAAT in their devices right. For some reason the Devialets slipped through Roon's certification process without the fault being discovered and Roon OK'ed the release of Devialet's Roon Ready firmware update.
So Devialet is responsible for creating and for fixing the problem, Devialet and Roon share responsibility for the release of a faulty implementation to users.
Our problem is that only Devialet can fix the issue. If Roon could fix it they would have fixed it by now—anyone who has been using Roon for any length of time will now that Roon is very good at acknowledging and fixing bugs in its software quickly. Devialet, on the other hand, is quite slow at acknowledging problems and even slower at fixing them. Take a look at the history of AIR over the years prior to Roon implementing it in their software, take a look at the problems with Sweet Room and the inability to use the full number of correction points if you're using SAM that is now almost a year old without a fix. The fact that we're still talking about this problem over 2 years after the Expert Pros became Roon Ready is pretty much a repeat of the situation that many users had with AIR when Devialet introduced it. Devialet make great hardware but they are nowhere near as good with their software and they are very slow to acknowledge and to fix their software problems.
To my ears and in my system Roon Air has always sounded clearly better than Raat... but was never as stable. Air had this elastic transparence to the sound that to me defines the Devialet. Raat was good but lacking this magical spark. Which is pretty much the exact opposite most people have reported... :-)
At the moment with a Melco S10P as switch Raat is 100% stable and Roon Air is 99.9% stable. I had some slight drops with Air once in August with 192/24 file but even that lasted only around 1 sec and wasn't too disturbing.
Btw, I have stopped using both because clocked and LPSed Mutec through AES/EBU sounds even better... and has been 100% stable till now whatever the type of file streamed (including DSD256). I have not tried the Mutec without the Cybershaft Clock and cannot try it withouth the Paul Hynes SR7T LPS because Mutec shipped me a unit without power unit. So I can't really comment about how deep one has to be into Mutec for it to overtake Air. But this is very clear for me with my all in approach.
Cheers,
Bernard
(29-Sep-2021, 17:06)markush Wrote: [ -> ]Wow - just did a recent test with Roon release 831 and the difference between RAAT and AIR are reasonable. It seems Roon treats the SAM setting differently - meaning needing a higher SAM % setting on AIR than ROON to be the same.
I have a high resolving HiFi system and tested this extensively.
Did someone experience the same?
Yes, this is the difference I perceive between RAAT and AIR. The bass from RAAT seems more boomy, more diluted and less precise. This is why I prefer and use AIR.
Wow it’s exactly the same observations I made what both of you in your comments are reporting!
It would be very interesting to have an idea what could be the reason behind this. Anyone got an idea/ possible explanation?
Same with me. AIR sounds a little better.
BTW, I wrote already about a possible bug with Roon AIR - subwoofer pre-outs are 1 dB higher than with RAAT and UPnP (which is my main source - it sounds even better than Roon AIR). Pretty strange.
@
bernardl
How much better is the sound using Mutec with LPS - how significant is the difference and could you please describe the difference? Have you tried UPnP?
It's always hard to quantify sound differences.
The moment I played the first song with the Mutec I could clear hear more rightness, more clarity, more actually-being-there-in-front-of-the-mucisianess... But don't get me wrong, I already found the sound with Roon Air and the Melco S10p out of this world good and thought nothing could better it... :-)
So it went from insanely great to the best sound I have ever heard from any system... sort of... :-)
Cheers,
Bernard
I find UPnP better than Roon AIR in exactly the same parameters - clarity and transparency.
It's not huge difference, of course. It's subtle, but pretty easy to identify in known tracks.
Have you tried UPnP?
(30-Sep-2021, 09:18)Delija Wrote: [ -> ]Same with me. AIR sounds a little better.
BTW, I wrote already about a possible bug with Roon AIR - subwoofer pre-outs are 1 dB higher than with RAAT and UPnP (which is my main source - it sounds even better than Roon AIR). Pretty strange.
Interesting! Imagine what would be possible to audio quality if Devialet would again spend some time on bug fixing and further development of AIR.
Has anyone heard some feedback from Mathieu or someone in charge of Expert line?