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Full Version: Upgrade my 250 to a 1000 or go with a different integrated?
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Hey Everyone,

I'm looking to upgrade my Expert Pro 250 to a 1000, but I keep wondering if I should look at other alternatives. Before I spend the equivalent of a nicely loaded 3-Series, I'm curious if there are other integrated amps that you all really enjoy or would prefer. A bit of additional background. I use the Devialet to power my Wilson Sabrinas for all of my video and games (Apple TV, Xbox One, PS4, Nintendo Switch), I sometimes stream music via Airplay but mostly use a LP12 with an Ortofon Windfeld Ti. 

So, double down on Devialet or move to something else?

Would love your thoughts!
Given where we are, I would be surprised if the general recommendation is different from going the Devialet route. Every one that moved the dual mono route reported to be very satisfied with the improvements and I would say that unless you are not satisfied by by current D250 and that having more and better of it would not satisfy you, I still don’t see any credible competitors in terms of features, form factor, power, SNR, THD, etc....

Jean-Marie
(18-Jul-2019, 02:10)Dev_Steve Wrote: [ -> ]Hey Everyone,

I'm looking to upgrade my Expert Pro 250 to a 1000, but I keep wondering if I should look at other alternatives. Before I spend the equivalent of a nicely loaded 3-Series, I'm curious if there are other integrated amps that you all really enjoy or would prefer. A bit of additional background. I use the Devialet to power my Wilson Sabrinas for all of my video and games (Apple TV, Xbox One, PS4, Nintendo Switch), I sometimes stream music via Airplay but mostly use a LP12 with an Ortofon Windfeld Ti. 

So, double down on Devialet or move to something else?

Would love your thoughts!

Devialet is one of the best Integrated amp you can get at the moment, or you can get something different, probably not better.
As someone who owns the 1000, I'd actually recommend that you stay with the 250. For me, the sound quality upgrade from D250 to D250 Pro was a bigger improvement than the addition of a second unit to make the 1000. Yes, the 1000 does sound marginally better. But it's not night and day. And your Sabrinas are relatively efficient, so you'll probably not need the additional power.

For what it's worth, the money I spent on hiring an expert to dial in the system (Stirling Trayle at Audio Systems Optimized) made a *much* bigger difference than the move from 250 to 1000 (and a lot cheaper, too!).

That said, if I were in the market to switch, I'd probably start by auditioning the current integrateds from CH Precision, Constellation, Mark Levinson, Pass Labs, and Aesthetix. And I'd wring my hands about whether to go with an onboard DAC (likely difficult or impossible to upgrade) or a separate DAC (more boxes, more choices, more cables). And if you decide on a separate DAC, why not consider a pre/DAC (dCS Bartok, for example) and an amp? See, too many choices!!
(18-Jul-2019, 02:10)Dev_Steve Wrote: [ -> ]Ciao a tutti,

sto cercando di aggiornare il mio Expert Pro 250 a 1000, ma continuo a chiedermi se dovrei guardare ad altre alternative. Prima di passare l'equivalente di una serie 3 ben caricata, sono curiosi di sapere se ci sono altri amplificatori integrati di cui tutti voi godete o preferirebbero davvero. Un po 'di sfondo aggiuntivo. Uso di Devialet per alimentare il mio Wilson Sabrinas per tutti i miei video e giochi (Apple TV, Xbox One, PS4, Nintendo Switch), a volte trasmetto musica tramite Airplay ma uso principalmente un LP12 con Ortofon Windfeld Ti. 

Quindi, raddoppia su Devialet o passa a qualcos'altro?

Adorerei i tuoi pensieri!
It is not necessary to upgrade to 1000 to improve

take a test with Bricasti M12 with M15
Well, folks. I did it. I took the plunge and upgraded to the 1000. While I may always be left to wonder after looking into other integrateds, including the ones flohmann recommended, I made the decision because there is just something that Devialet has that nobody else does. Could I have bought something that is far less expensive? Yes. Am I intrigued by an all analog system like Aesthetix? Of course. Is there something out there with a better phono stage? Probably. But none of the other choices, absolutely none, have the same aesthetic sense as Devialet does. Design is incredibly important to me and the 1000 looks absolutely gorgeous. And let's not forget that remote. It's magical. There's nothing else out there like it (and now I have 2 of them).

And now for the sound. I feel like there is a substantial difference between the 250 and 1000. I'm hearing details in vinyl that I did not notice in the 250 and the sound stage is much more present and substantial. The 1000 also seems to have a much broader range than the 250 with regard to movies and TV. Now, I have to admit this could all be just in my head. Given the amount I spent, I may be perceiving a greater difference than what is really there, but if I'm perceiving it, who cares?

All in all, we have chosen a hobby in which we will never be satisfied, and we are in a constant state of compromise. In this instance, I am very satisfied with the decision. I appreciate everyone's input Thanks again!
(11-Aug-2019, 20:49)Dev_Steve Wrote: [ -> ]Well, folks. I did it. I took the plunge and upgraded to the 1000. While I may always be left to wonder after looking into other integrateds, including the ones flohmann recommended, I made the decision because there is just something that Devialet has that nobody else does. Could I have bought something that is far less expensive? Yes. Am I intrigued by an all analog system like Aesthetix? Of course. Is there something out there with a better phono stage? Probably. But none of the other choices, absolutely none, have the same aesthetic sense as Devialet does. Design is incredibly important to me and the 1000 looks absolutely gorgeous. And let's not forget that remote. It's magical. There's nothing else out there like it (and now I have 2 of them).

And now for the sound. I feel like there is a substantial difference between the 250 and 1000. I'm hearing details in vinyl that I did not notice in the 250 and the sound stage is much more present and substantial. The 1000 also seems to have a much broader range than the 250 with regard to movies and TV. Now, I have to admit this could all be just in my head. Given the amount I spent, I may be perceiving a greater difference than what is really there, but if I'm perceiving it, who cares?

All in all, we have chosen a hobby in which we will never be satisfied, and we are in a constant state of compromise. In this instance, I am very satisfied with the decision. I appreciate everyone's input Thanks again!
Congratulations!
Enjoy it fully, and the difference you are perceiving is consistent with what other people who moved to dual mono have been reporting. 

Jean-Marie
(11-Aug-2019, 20:49)Dev_Steve Wrote: [ -> ]And now for the sound. I feel like there is a substantial difference between the 250 and 1000. I'm hearing details in vinyl that I did not notice in the 250 and the sound stage is much more present and substantial. The 1000 also seems to have a much broader range than the 250 with regard to movies and TV.
I was considering the same upgrade: 250 Pro CI to 1000 Pro CI. Just like you, I went ahead with the upgrade.

The difference *is* substantial. I'm using large floorstanders (PSB Imagine T3), and also demo-ed with a Sonus Faber Olympica III. The changes with both speakers are similar. Tonally, the bass became tighter and the midrange brought more forward. The soundstage became a bit bigger. There is noticeably more detail, things like texture of sounds are more obvious. There is a lot more muscle to the sound, it sounds more 'powerful' and alive. The sources I tested with are Roon Ethernet and the AES XLR input (PC streamer with external USB converter). Using the stock RCA Audioquest Carbon interconnect.
hardcore, did you find that you had to make significant tone adjustments as well? I was surprised at the amount of tinkering I did post upgrading. I also went with the Carbon RCA, although I had one custom done at 10" so it would fit really nicely with the amps stacked. Highly recommend it!
(17-Aug-2019, 17:02)Dev_Steve Wrote: [ -> ]hardcore, did you find that you had to make significant tone adjustments as well? I was surprised at the amount of tinkering I did post upgrading. I also went with the Carbon  RCA, although  I had one custom done at 10" so it would fit really nicely with the amps stacked. Highly recommend it!
Hi Dev_Steve, I did find that going dual mono did change the sound more than I expected, in good ways.

Talking about tinkering, I'm assuming you are using the RCA-RCA master-slave connection. Have you tried using and configuring the 3.5mm trigger cable between master and slave? I find that having the trigger cable connected also changes the sound quite a bit - it seems more balanced with it connected. I suspect it affects the grounding.
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