Now that my Phantom Golds are out of warranty, the Dialog that connects them has started randomly becoming unresponsive. I'm sure it's the dialog, because the left Phantom (to which my audio source is attached via optical) keeps playing, while Spark is unable to find the system, and rebooting the Dialog (not the Phantoms) fixes everything. I'd say this happens several times a week.
Everything is connected via PLC, since according to my discussions with Devialet support itself, wifi is unreliable. I could upgrade to DOS 2.0, and attempt to cut the Dialog out of the equation with a direct connection to each Phantom (as I understand it, this is a feature of DOS 2.0?), but from everything I've read, DOS 2.0 is just as unreliable, and I don't want to create new problems, so I'm still running DOS 1.14.
Has anyone else had this issue with their Dialog, and managed to fix it? I've been through several of them, but as mentioned, I'm now out of warranty. I'm half tempted to cut the rubber off my Dialog and open it up, in case the problem is overheating.
Sorry for reading about your troubles. I've updated 6 Phantoms and a Dialog to DOS2, and I could not be happier. It's more stable than DOS1 and the UI is a lot better. I would recommend an upgrade to DOS2 before you gut the Dialog.
(30-Jul-2021, 01:53)ragwo Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry for reading about your troubles. I've updated 6 Phantoms and a Dialog to DOS2, and I could not be happier. It's more stable than DOS1 and the UI is a lot better. I would recommend an upgrade to DOS2 before you gut the Dialog.
+1
Hi meeotch - the trouble with going to DOS2 is that you can't then go back if you decide its not for you. Having said that the current version of DOS2 is much more stable than earlier versions.
A lot depends on how you currently use DOS1 and the app that it comes with - DOS2 removed much of the functionality of DOS1 in terms of Tidal, Radio etc so you then need third party apps to play your local music and radio etc.
At first I wasn't happy with DOS2 but having gone through the process of going to a local server for my music using the Mconnect phone app, Mserver on a PC and finally switching over to ROON for all my Devialet services AND taking advantage of the Elevate program I'm finally in a happy place with this product which is crazy if you think too hard about it!
Can you give some details of how you currently use your Phantoms for playing music as this is the most important consideration when thinking of going to DOS2? If your only input is your optical one and you don't use the DOS1 app for Tidal, Radio etc then I would recommend going for DOS2 - your Dialog shouldn't then be needed at all unless you need a third optical input as far as I am aware.
kantblue
Thanks for the reply. Luckily, my setup has just two audio sources: PC into left Phantom via optical, turntable into right Phantom via optical. I don't worry about streaming or casting or any of the new-fangled stuff the kids are doing these days on my lawn. I control the PC via Clementine remote.
Honestly, I resent even having to use a second app at all (Spark). And then the only reason I ever do is to constantly reset the volume to a reasonable level, as the system is missing a pretty basic feature: the ability to remember the previous volume level when you turn on the source after an extended period of silence, as any other amp in the history of amps would do. When I asked why that feature was removed in one of the early versions of DOS 1.0, Devialet gave the particularly unsatisfying response used by every faceless corporation ever: "It's for your protection, sir." The problem being that it totally breaks my use case, which is to control everything from the PC, including volume, playing music automatically when I'm on vacation, to wake me up in the morning, etc. A use case that was carefully explained to them prior to purchase.
I've heard some reports that DOS 2.0 has even lower (perceptually) volume settings, which is bad for me. At this point, volume 35 is just barely loud enough, with the PC set at maximum volume, and not loud enough for the turntable.
Also, reports that DOC 2.0 changes the sound of the Phantoms overall (though nobody seems to be sure) - again, bad, unless it's an improvement. So, more than one reason for my hesitancy in upgrading. At this point, the sound is the only thing I like about the system. Even the bluetooth Remote seems to stop working every few days. (Again, after several replacements.)
In DOS2, if you do not change optical input, the speaker will remember the volume even after an extended period of silence.
Devialet has denied any changes in sound from DOS1 to DOS2. I can't hear any difference, but my expectation bias wasn't very strong either way, and my golden ears are gone.
The new remote supported by DOS2 makes the old moisturizer jar obsolete. The new one is dead stable with minimal lag, rechargeable, has a display and it's not toppling over all the time. Highly recommended!
A work around for your volume issues could be the optical direct mode, which is easily available in DOS2. You'll need some additional hardware, such as an optical splitter which is dead cheap on fleabay, and an optical switch which can be controlled by your computer. The latter might be hard to find, but I haven't been looking very hard for one.
Thanks for the info. I'd heard about the optical direct mode, which sounds great, even if it means running another 50-foot cable (my speakers are separated by a long distance). I assume the optical switch would be to switch between the PC and the turntable? Unfortunately, the turntable is also separated from the PC by the same distance, as it's positioned near the right Phantom, and none of the components can reasonably be moved. So it would mean running two 50-foot optical cables: one from the turntable->PC (or reverse), into the switch, into the splitter, and then back to the opposite Phantom.
So if PLC is reliable I'd probably prefer to stick with my current wiring. I take it that DOS 2.0 has no option for the Phantoms to send an input directly to each other, without intermediation from the Dialog?
As for the remote, the new one sounds like what the original one should have been. But it's a bit galling to give Devialet $200 to replace hardware that never worked correctly in the first place. (And if DOS 2.0 can maintain a stable volume level even when no source is active, then my need for the remote largely disappears, as I can just use my phone PC control.)
Unrelated question: does DOS 2.0 (or optical direct mode) remove the N-microsecond (160ms?) delay that was present with DOS 1.0? I've noticed some threads about using Phantoms for TV audio, which wouldn't have been feasible before, without some sort of audio time offset at the TV end. (Or mobile DJing, which would have been difficult/impossible with the delay.)
I can see that 50 ft x2 with wiring is troublesome. Could you connected the speakers with ethernet cables to your router? If so, Dante could be a solution.
The Devialet Arch can act as a RIAA and/or AD-converter, only needing an ethernet connection to your router.
The Dialog is obsolete with DOS2. It only acts as an extra optical input. It can't be used in optical direct mode though.
The latency in optical direct mode is about 1ms according to measurements by a fellow member here on DC. In DOS2 you can adjust the latency of the optical inputs, the lowest possible latency is 90 ms, perfectly fine for lipsync on my TVs.
You're absolutely right. The new remote is exactly what V1 should have been. It obviously took some time to get it right for Devialet.
Hi meeotch
I would say that with your current setup useage you are an ideal candidate for the DOS2 upgrade (IMHO) the main caveat being (again in my humble opinion) the age/model/date of manufacture of your current Phantoms.
For some users the upgrade experience has been quite dissimilar and I suspect this is to do with the differing components being used at different times during the manufacturing process.
If you do run into trouble with the upgrade this forum and Devialet should be able to help you.
All of the other options such as Optical Direct, Dante and so on are easier to setup in DOS2 so you could always explore those options later?
I didn't notice any major volume changes between Dos1 and Dos2 with my original Phantom Classics, but having used the Elevate program to upgrade to newer Classic phantoms it does seem to me that the volume from the newer models needs to be higher than I used to listen at but this is just my opinion. I also think the sound is better - again subjective. The new remote (which is supplied with the Phantom Elevate program) is much better but expensive if you want to purchase it standalone.
Dos2 does keep the current volume setting provided the speakers are always left ON or in standby - I always power mine down completely when not in use (due to my bluetooth security paranoia!)
The only problem I have had with DOS2 is that if you leave the Devialet app running on your phone and pause it to answer a call and then put the call volume up it also ups the Phantom volume - having experienced the Phantoms restarting on 100% volume its not an experience I want to repeat - I always check the volume after pausing/stopping the music. If you don't use the Devialet app (which replaces Spark) - you should be fine. You will need the DEVIALET app to upgrade to DOS2.
kantblue
PS
You said: 'So if PLC is reliable I'd probably prefer to stick with my current wiring. I take it that DOS 2.0 has no option for the Phantoms to send an input directly to each other, without intermediation from the Dialog?'
Yes it does have that option. In DOS2 the Phantoms communicate with each other directly - you can manually choose either optical input using the Devialet App or you can leave the setting on AutoSwitch which will automatically switch between which input is being used. This is the main reason the Dialog is no longer necessary for stereo output.
Thanks for the continued information. I hadn't even heard about the Elevate program (or Dante). I've gotta say - if the original system had worked anything like it was intended to, I'd consider Elevate simply as a way of getting new hardware + warranty. Given the actual situation, giving Devialet an additional $3200 US in the hope that the new hardware is better really rankles. They ought to discount the program for every day you spent in "customer service hell" - they'd probably end up owing me money. ;-) (It took me literally fifteen months of back-and-forth with them, before I eventually just gave up on customer service and decided to live with the problems.)
I skimmed through the giant Elevate thread, but it seemed to be mostly concerned with delivery times, and I saw relatively little about whether the new hardware was worth the price. I'm really hoping that being an early adopter (my Golds have serials ending in U06, which I take it makes them "old") doesn't mean they're doomed to fail in a few years, now that they're out of warranty. I know that I was pretty dismayed to learn after purchase that Phantoms are "unrepairable", due to the woofer design. Does the new hardware change this in some way?
It sounds like rolling the dice on DOS 2.0 may be the best option at this point. Losing the ability to run Spark on Windows, which is my current use case, is a problem. But not needing to use the app at all might make up for it. As well as the satisfaction of taking a hammer to my Dialog. I assume the old Remote will work with DOS 2.0?