Seeking advice for possible changes to my system configuration...
I've enjoyed my Ensemble (120 + Atohm GT1) for several years as we lived in a relatively small NYC apartment, mostly using it to play vinyls and as speaker for our TV (through an optic fibre connection). On many occasions and for both applications, we've been very impressed by the sound that the Ensemble would deliver.
Moved back to France into a larger apartment and upgraded to a 220 Pro w/ CI, still driving the mighty little Atohm GT1s. The system ended up in our living room, which is somewhat pentagonal and has lots of openings (open kitchen...)... clearly not optimal, and offering little flexibility...
The amp is also connected to an AV amp in a 5.0 setup, driving the 2 main front speakers (the GT1s). Primary AV applications are watching cable TV/movies on our video projector (we have no TV) and video gaming (Xbox)
I've been struggling to get the wow factor out of the Ensemble that we used to get in our previous place, trying a few things with limited success:
- evaluated higher-end power cables, with strictly no perceived difference
- moved the speakers and tried slight orientation changes - which probably had the most significant effect on the soundstage
- tried different SAM settings, with very few differences perceived - this came as a surprised as I recalled having been particularly impressed the first time I activated SAM (years ago, on the 120 and in the previous apartment).
I'm now wondering about adding a sub (which I originally didn't considered out of a concern for other tenants of our old building - a concern not so relevant in our new place), and more specifically one of the 2 offered by Atohm, but I'm really unsure as of whether it's worth it.
Considering that my system is used in what I feel is a suboptimal room, and considering the effects of SAM and the performance of the GT1, what's your take? I'm not seeking to get massive bass, but to get a fuller sound. Would a sub be of any value, and if so, what value?
As always, your educated input will be much appreciated!
Yes, but...
Don't expect instant results. It takes quite some time and experience for proper subwoofer(s) setup.
(06-Mar-2022, 18:17)Delija Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, but...
Don't expect instant results. It takes quite some time and experience for proper subwoofer(s) setup.
True, but the right subwoofer(s) are not hard to integrate. I added a SVS PC4000 to my floor standing speakers, and couldn't be more pleased with the results. Modern subwoofers such as the PC4000 have a variety of setup options that make it easier to integrate than before these advances.
In my case, it was well worth it.
There is a difference between good and great integration.
It's not so hard to get good bass. The main issue is that subwoofers affect the whole FR - no matter if you use high-pass filter or not and how steep the low-pass filter is. Even sounds that don't have any fundaments in bass range, like cymbals are greatly affected by subwoofers - pretty much the same as with Devialet SAM.
BTW, I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'm yet to hear stereo system with vented subwoofer(s) which sound good by my criteria. They are just too slow and not precise/tight/controlled enough.
Hi @
ArnoNYC
First of all, I envy you in Paris. Really, that is a very good address.
On the subwoofer side, I completely understand your position. I have and love my Dali standpoints, and the urge for a little more bottom end is a funny thing; the tone and bass is there, but at the same time, a bit more heft would be welcome. So, I added a single KEF C62, and with a bit of fussing, I've made it work and I really like it. It sits in the system sound very nicely. Tight and tuneful, it is not noticeable as a separate thing.
It does two things really well. First, it does extend the bass reproduction in an easy way, both with tone and some impact. Not massive impact, but it feels that every thing you want is there. Second, it frees up the midrange of the main speakers. I use SAM together with the pre out low pass sent to the sub. I'm very happy with the addition of the sub. For a modest price, it really works.
Here is a very poor picture of the KEF in our room. It is very compact and that was extremely important as well.
BTW, I have heard the Atohm, and I think they are wonderful speakers, and a small, musical sub like the KEF would be an excellent match.
[
attachment=5126]
(06-Mar-2022, 22:47)Delija Wrote: [ -> ]There is a difference between good and great integration.
It's not so hard to get good bass. The main issue is that subwoofers affect the whole FR - no matter if you use high-pass filter or not and how steep the low-pass filter is. Even sounds that don't have any fundaments in bass range, like cymbals are greatly affected by subwoofers - pretty much the same as with Devialet SAM.
BTW, I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'm yet to hear stereo system with vented subwoofer(s) which sound good by my criteria. They are just too slow and not precise/tight/controlled enough.
I’ve often wondered about the term ‘slow’ with regards to sub woofers. The frequencies they produce dictate that they have to move ‘slowly’. If they move fadt, then they aren’t producing the frequency they’re meant to. I wonder whether people who complain about slow subs are just asking the subs to work in the mid bass region where ‘fast’ means ‘tight’ bass.
Try different subwoofers, play with them - you'll find out very easily what I'm talking about.
(07-Mar-2022, 07:22)Damon Wrote: [ -> ]Hi @ArnoNYC
First of all, I envy you in Paris. Really, that is a very good address.
On the subwoofer side, I completely understand your position. I have and love my Dali standpoints, and the urge for a little more bottom end is a funny thing; the tone and bass is there, but at the same time, a bit more heft would be welcome. So, I added a single KEF C62, and with a bit of fussing, I've made it work and I really like it. It sits in the system sound very nicely. Tight and tuneful, it is not noticeable as a separate thing.
It does two things really well. First, it does extend the bass reproduction in an easy way, both with tone and some impact. Not massive impact, but it feels that every thing you want is there. Second, it frees up the midrange of the main speakers. I use SAM together with the pre out low pass sent to the sub. I'm very happy with the addition of the sub. For a modest price, it really works.
Here is a very poor picture of the KEF in our room. It is very compact and that was extremely important as well.
BTW, I have heard the Atohm, and I think they are wonderful speakers, and a small, musical sub like the KEF would be an excellent match.
Thanks for sharing - I saw that Atohm also had a couple of options for subs, including one in the same price range as your KEF, and similar form factor. I'll try to see if I can connect with a local dealer and give them a try.
(and Vancouver is not bad either...
)
(07-Mar-2022, 11:26)Delija Wrote: [ -> ]Try different subwoofers, play with them - you'll find out very easily what I'm talking about.
That's the take from the various answers received. I'll give a try with one or two sub options, hoping that setting them up won't be too convoluted...
One more thing...
As previously noted, my system is connected with an AV amp - I'm curious if anyone here also has such a configuration. If so, which amp do you connect your sub to? The AV one or the Devialet? Where does the sub have the best value? Expanding the range of the main speakers (connected to the Devialet), or helping the AV amp with bass?