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+--- Thread: News about AIR-crackling noise from Munich (/Thread-News-about-AIR-crackling-noise-from-Munich)
RE: News about AIR-crackling noise from Munich - Mohmm - 20-May-2015
(20-May-2015, 21:20)midi Wrote:(20-May-2015, 09:49)hk6230 Wrote:(20-May-2015, 07:51)Mohmm Wrote:(19-May-2015, 23:41)midi Wrote: I have different mac´s (and apple wlan routers) and with all this devices the same problem, so I have no hope that deleting and reinstalling everything is a solution. In addition I have still tried this with a brand new mac book, without any improvement. For me AIR is the problem. The only solution for me to avoid crackling noise is using a Mac via USB or a an Apple TV via optical or the Sonos Connect via Coax. But as I purchased the D120 I have done this under the aspect to use a wireless control with the possibility to stream high-res files. Both not possible with the other solutions. For the moment the Auralic Aries is a (expensive) solution, but then I have another device and I would depend on another software solution from Auralic and no multiroom solution.
I think the Apple Airport Extreme or Express are not good for streaming high resolution audio. Any router is a bad idea for fast switching tasks AFAIK. I use a dedicated (and fixed IP) ethernet line from the second ethernet port of my Mac to the D800. But the connection also works via my Netgear 4-port switch (not a router!), a connection that I used before the dedicated line (CAT 6A, CAT 5e also works well). Such connections also worked with my earlier LINN streaming gear. What's the quality of your patch cables?
To be honest, I think a few people (probably not you, midi) expect highrez streaming to work with a sub-optimal system or over a compromised network environment (wired or wireless). If it doesn't work as expected, AIR and D must be the culprits. From a developer's standpoint I assume that their testing will be done with up to date computer gear and network structures.
Similar complaints as here on devialetchat.com also exist at Linn's user forum (http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/forumdisplay.php?fid=17) and often it turns out that the bottle neck was in the user's computer and network setup. The problem with D is that they don't delegate any technically versed person to follow the discussions here and to bring in advice as do Linn.
May I ask with a switch, how do you setup the IP address for the Mac and Devialet for them to talk to each other?
I am using a CAT-7 network in my house and CAT-7 cables between my devices.
Sorry, but Devialet has promised that high-resolution streaming AIR is possible and they recommend Apple extreme and express devices for that. So it should work or I can´t make this promise.
An ethernet connection between my mac and the devialet is not the comfortable wireless solution I am searching for and I have hoped I have bought with the Devialet.
Imo wireless streaming also depends on the wireless noise in your surroundings. If there are no neighbours at close by channels, it does work.
RE: News about AIR-crackling noise from Munich - midi - 20-May-2015
Do you know a place where aren´t at least 5 wlan-networks around ?
Once again, if you promise this with AIR (and the lt of money they want for the device) it should work - without a lot of excuses.
RE: News about AIR-crackling noise from Munich - Mohmm - 21-May-2015
(20-May-2015, 22:00)midi Wrote: Do you know a place where aren´t at least 5 wlan-networks around ?
Once again, if you promise this with AIR (and the lt of money they want for the device) it should work - without a lot of excuses.
I guess quite a few of posters in the forum have a quiet RF-environment. And most probably the Devialet developers in the countryside.
Coming back to the router and switch question: Ever since Linn's DS units came to the market Linn strongly recommended
(a) against wireless, and pro cabling, and
(b) against using routers (including Apple's airport Express/Extreme) instead of fast switches with ethernet.
Linn was quite realistic in their recommendations.
RE: News about AIR-crackling noise from Munich - Hifi_swlon - 21-May-2015
(20-May-2015, 07:51)Mohmm Wrote: ….
But the connection also works via my Netgear 4-port switch (not a router!), a connection that I used before the dedicated line (CAT 6A, CAT 5e also works well). Such connections also worked with my earlier LINN streaming gear. What's the quality of your patch cables?
To be honest, I think a few people (probably not you, midi) expect highrez streaming to work with a sub-optimal system or over a compromised network environment (wired or wireless). If it doesn't work as expected, AIR and D must be the culprits. From a developer's standpoint I assume that their testing will be done with up to date computer gear and network structures.
...
I know I've banged on about this before, but I'd have to disagree with this standpoint, having also suffered Air problems over a wired gigabit network and switch. Quite possibly, Air just isn't very good!
What quality patch cables does one need? Mine are cat 5e and can transfer hundreds of gigabytes - terabytes probably - of data reliably without error.
Yet I can't get a days worth of redbook files out of Air without issues. I barely get a few hours.
So I agree it works for some, but if it won't work over an 'average' gigabit wired network, I don't think its very good, and a decent wireless network probably doesn't stand much chance. The amount of data being moved by Air is tiny, so in my opinion if it doesn't work for practically everyone - at least on a solid network similar to mine - it really isn't very well designed/implemented. Or the Units are faulty perhaps? Either way, it was my biggest disappointment with Devialet.
That is before I picked up on the chattering noise of my D's power supply, and tried the latest two firmwares - the latter being very subjective of course.
Communicating with Devialet support pretty much finished me off.
RE: News about AIR-crackling noise from Munich - midi - 21-May-2015
(21-May-2015, 08:00)Mohmm Wrote:(20-May-2015, 22:00)midi Wrote: Do you know a place where aren´t at least 5 wlan-networks around ?
Once again, if you promise this with AIR (and the lt of money they want for the device) it should work - without a lot of excuses.
I guess quite a few of posters in the forum have a quiet RF-environment. And most probably the Devialet developers in the countryside.
Coming back to the router and switch question: Ever since Linn's DS units came to the market Linn strongly recommended
(a) against wireless, and pro cabling, and
(b) against using routers (including Apple's airport Express/Extreme) instead of fast switches with ethernet.
Linn was quite realistic in their recommendations.
Strange reasoning.
If I remember correctly Devialet has communicated no restrictions with AIR with the exception to have a strong network - my network is strong and has better values as Devialet demands. Are there any restrictions like "please check that not more than 3/5 other wlans are around you" ?
And it does not matter what Linn said. Obviously Linn is smarter or honest.
I bought a Devialet for really a lot of money, because I trusted their AIR-advertising. Since then I have heard a lot of meaningless statements from Devialet, but nothing really happened for a long time now.
If you buy a car for a lot of money because it has 4 wheel drive and most of the time the 4 wheel drive has droputs (because it´s too cold or too hot or too wet) and you can only drive by 2 wheels, would you accept it or would you try to return it and ask for the money you have paid for it ?
RE: News about AIR-crackling noise from Munich - blair.athol - 21-May-2015
well, I am driving a SUV 4 wheel drive but would not go on real off road tracks with it...
Using wireless flawlessly is certainly depending on your environment and setup. Meaning, when the "road" is really bad, you should not expect that a hires track such as 24 bit/192 bit can be streamed without any cracks ;-)
RE: News about AIR-crackling noise from Munich - midi - 21-May-2015
(21-May-2015, 22:17)blair.athol Wrote: well, I am driving a SUV 4 wheel drive but would not go on real off road tracks with it...
Using wireless flawlessly is certainly depending on your environment and setup. Meaning, when the "road" is really bad, you should not expect that a hires track such as 24 bit/192 bit can be streamed without any cracks ;-)
how do you come to the realization "the road is really bad" ? this is an insinuation.
the road is good and good enough for everything but AIR - AIR is bad. Devialet knows that AIR is bad or has a problem, but they don´t find the solution. So what do we discuss here ?
RE: News about AIR-crackling noise from Munich - blair.athol - 21-May-2015
ok, my road is not too bad, I use an ethernet cable as well as Wifi over apple airport time capsule which stands near to my D200 and although there are many wifi networks in my area, the only time I experienced cracling noise was on hires files above 24bit/92 khz. Although, I am not sure if any other sources of disturbance had been excludednat that time, such as other traffic on my home network...
RE: News about AIR-crackling noise from Munich - Yippedidou - 21-May-2015
I have to say... 4 years ago, I was a Naim fan. I bought a SuperUniti, hooked it to a router with a Cat6e wire, set the machine and never ever ever had a problem with drop outs or white noise while streaming with it, hi rez or not. I'm an average guy that likes music, hate to have cds or lps lying in my listening room. I'm not a techi, i just play music out of a computer.... I repeat.. Never ever had a problem streaming with Naim ( wi-fi, had many drop outs on HiRez files but thats another story - i'm talking about a wired connection here ).
So when I came to Devialet, it was a very quick decision. I heard a 200 with my speakers and bought it period. My idea was streaming; the exact same set up I had with Naim. I wasnt aware of the white noise problem. The 200 was delivered to my home and 2 days after, bang, white noise. What a downer! I cannot play AIR for more than 1 hour without getting it.
Again, this was the same set up I had with the Naim SU. Something is wrong with AIR. If you are a serious company, you dont claim to be "ze best in ze world" and let average people like me with those kind of problems. You find the problem and fix it. Period.
This said, I love everything about Devialet: the product, the sound, the upgrade, the innovation, the technology and the price. But I will never use AIR because I've invested in a Aurender X100L and perfectly satisfied as this machine works without any problem. And I dont recommend Devialet if you want to stream. I've said it to all my friends. If you buy Devialet, its not for streaming... Its for the rest.
What I dont like about Devialet and that whole issue about white noise is the lack of respect they show to all the people who bought their product with streaming in mind and cant because the product is just not working. Guys, get your things right before wanting to change the world! You're lucky that the product sounds so good; one day, another guy will come up and then it will be pay time for all that lack of respect.
So... When is it going to work for real? There's still a little bit of time left before someone comes with a better solution...
RE: News about AIR-crackling noise from Munich - Antoine - 22-May-2015
AIR is not that bad but it's not fool proof and needs careful setup.
At least it used to run flawless here and I have used it over WiFi until I upgraded my D-Premier to a 250. Then I first started using ethernet because if/when I used WiFi and loaded a heavy website I would sometimes have those "crackles", monitoring WiFi latency indeed showed an increase and packet loss but this is normal behavior and I could probably have prevented this if I chose a higher buffer. As I also live in a neighborhood with a crowded 2.4GHz band (I could easily pickup >40 AP's) I placed my WiFi router (a still excellent 2.4GHz performer Asus RT-N66U) near the Devialet, with a clear line of sight. Of course a dedicated ethernet line takes away all the bandwidth, packet loss and latency issues common to WiFi in a crowded WiFi neighborhood so I switched to using that after the 250 upgrade.
When I discovered USB could/does sound a whole lot better when using a properly tuned music server I switched to USB completely.
I never suffered from the white noise issue while using AIR while using release versions of both AIR and firmware.
edit: the USB input on the Devialet is completely fool proof BTW, but at a cost (at least when using a PC/Mac based music server), it doesn't sound as well 'out of the box' as AIR. Like I wrote it needs careful tuning and so presents one with a steep learning curve. If one doesn't want any of that, and a flawless working system than perhaps the Aries, Aurender like machines are more to your liking but I expect even those are not trouble free. Don't you want any troubles at all then keep spinning those silver and black disks!
