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+--- Thread: Mac AIR v MiND 180 v Auralic ARIES v totaldac d1 server (/Thread-Mac-AIR-v-MiND-180-v-Auralic-ARIES-v-totaldac-d1-server)
RE: Mac AIR v MiND 180 v Auralic ARIES v totaldac d1 server - PhilP - 06-Sep-2014
(06-Sep-2014, 17:35)GuillaumeB Wrote: Day three of back to back comparisons between AIR, Aries and the totaldac d1... this time with Rufus sitting in the sweet spot!
We decided to focus a bit more on A+/AIR and the Aries this time.
Couple of changes:
- we selected "direct mode" in the A+ settings
- we used an Entreq Apollo USB cable (with Apollo ground cable) between the Aries and the Devialet
- we replaced the Transparent AES/EBU with an Entreq Apollo AES/EBU (with Apollo ground cable)
Results:
- we preferred A+ with Direct Mode to A+ with just use maximum I/O buffer size selected. There wasn't a huge difference between the two but with Direct Mode it did seem slightly less bright/analytical (not that it was that bad but you get my meaning).
- the Aries with a USB output definitely seems better than AES/EBU. I had also found this a few days ago when I first tried the Aries with the USB cable so we can't only put this down to burn-in.
- moving on to the totaldac d1 it was a substantial (read big) improvement over the other two, despite the change of AES/EBU cable to the Entreq one. Once we were playing music through the totaldac it was very difficult to go back to the other streaming methods.
- So in first place by a long margin: totaldac d1, A+/AIR was in second and the Aries came in third place.. we both felt that the Aries had improved a fair bit since our first audition last week.
I'm sure Rufus will fill in with a lot more detail since he made loads of notes!
Guillaume
Thanks again Guillaume, it's really great that you and Rufus are putting so much time and effort into doing this comparison. You appear to have given the Aries every chance and it's disappointing that it's not quite there in terms of sound quality. However, I guess for some the usability advantages of a streamer like the Aries over a PC/Mac will persuade many to buy it rather than use AIR.
I was told that Direct Mode actually won't work over ethernet or wi-fi - even if it's selected in A+ that selection doesn't do anything. Apparently, it only works with USB or AES/EBU. I don't know if this is true. As I'm sure you know, Audirvana implemented Direct Mode as a way of by-passing CoreAudio when Apple removed Integer Mode in Mtn Lion. I can't test this with my system as I can't select Direct mode or Integer Mode when running AIR. Did the integer mode indicator on the Audirvana display come on when you were running it with AIR? If so then I guess it does work. If not then then I Guess it doesn't.
Thanks,
Philip
RE: Mac AIR v MiND 180 v Auralic ARIES v totaldac d1 server - Divasson - 06-Sep-2014
Sorry, to make things clear for me: what were the settings in A+ and Air that you made? Were you sourcing from Itunes or directly by lists in Audirvana? Were you able to change sampling rates?
RE: Mac AIR v MiND 180 v Auralic ARIES v totaldac d1 server - Rufus McDufus - 07-Sep-2014
Divasson - would have to check with Guillaume, I wasn't in the same room as the Mac and didn't see! I did detect differences though, which might just prove I have an over-active imagination... I've called it integer mode below as I though that's what was changed but I could be wrong on this.
OK, first up was the Aries with an Entreq Apollo USB cable plus Apollo earth drain. Now this was a fair bit better than with XLR. Plus points are more dynamic, great separation/soundstage - really wide. Lovely and crisp. Downsides are still a sense of compression - midrange is wonderful but bass in particular seems a bit lacking. The soundstage rather oddly I found wide but not high! That's probably a load of old rubbish but it's almost like the soundstage was compressed at top and bottom literally like the frequency range. It's still a bit uninvolving to listen to and things got hard to follow on complex parts. I am nit-picking here - overall it is good, but the uninvolving part puts me off. It might only just take a firmware update to fix these things. The Moon MiND in comparison has less detail, less impressive soundstage, but just seems more enjoyable to listen to for me. Which really pains me to say as I'm a detail/soundstage freak.
Audivarna Plus from Mac (wireless, integer mode on, not from iTunes (I think)) - wow, this is good. Even more dynamic than the Aries though not by much. Slightly better depth than Aries? I'm not hearing the harshness/brightness I heard last week with the AIR solutions in particular (my ears seemed to really be emphasising brightness last weekend). It's really good, but perhaps still a tiny bit uninvolving and lacking in soul. OK, still a bit 'digital' sounding - don't like that phrase very much.
Audivarna Plus - as above but integer mode not set. Now I felt this was a bit brighter, more 'digital' and slightly more unpleasant. We disagreed on this one a bit as I don't think G detected any meaningful difference. In hindsight if the setting has no effect in this situation then it proves my imagination is trumping reality
totaldac d1-server and Entreq Apollo XLR. Again, this is the real deal. Much more analogue sounding - I could actually be listening to a turntable here, I'm not sure I could tell. It's really easy to folow individual instrument lines - they don't 'smear' into one or the brain doesn't get distracted by lead instruments to the detriment of lesser ones. You can really feel the interplay between musicians. I feel there's more air and reverb going on too - the musicians are in a real physical space. The same (very) complex parts where the Aries got a bit lost are almost unrecognisable here - still easy to follow. The Entreq XLR is excellent too - just as good as the Transparent Reference XL we used last week - I'm not sure I could tell a difference, and not far off £1k cheaper?
Damn it, wish I could afford the totaldac! I'm probably going to stick with jRiver/AIR for the time being but the Aries has potential. It does some things well - soundstage, crispness, separation of instruments, but that lacking top and bottom and especially the inability to really draw you into the music leaves me cold. I really hope they can address this. Also don't forget this is on G's system which is incredibly revealing and merciless of sources. My system is a lot more compromised (small room, poor acoustic treatment, speakers too close to the wall) and it may even sound rather good there.
RE: Mac AIR v MiND 180 v Auralic ARIES v totaldac d1 server - GuillaumeB - 07-Sep-2014
(06-Sep-2014, 21:41)Divasson Wrote: Sorry, to make things clear for me: what were the settings in A+ and Air that you made? Were you sourcing from Itunes or directly by lists in Audirvana? Were you able to change sampling rates?
Hi Divasson, the only setting we changed was Direct Mode - see image below. Re the tracks these were dragged and dropped (from folders on my Mac) into the A+ playlist window. iTunes wasn't used at all.
Guillaume
RE: Mac AIR v MiND 180 v Auralic ARIES v totaldac d1 server - Rufus McDufus - 07-Sep-2014
That's strange, I wonder why I have integer mode available and selectable on my MacBook AIR but you don't on your Mac?
RE: Mac AIR v MiND 180 v Auralic ARIES v totaldac d1 server - GuillaumeB - 07-Sep-2014
(07-Sep-2014, 08:00)Rufus McDufus Wrote: It's really easy to folow individual instrument lines - they don't 'smear' into one or the brain doesn't get distracted by lead instruments to the detriment of lesser ones. You can really feel the interplay between musicians. I feel there's more air and reverb going on too - the musicians are in a real physical space.
That's a brilliant description Rufus! That was exactly what the Entreq distributor said too. You can really "feel" the atmosphere in a live performance, it's not just about the typical hi-fi superlatives, better bass, better soundstage etc.
Picking up on a couple of points raised in this thread, yes I do think the d1 server is expensive and I would probably say (where practical) that it's important to get the foundations in place first, be it better speakers, cables (depending on your beliefs), power, grounding, room acoustics etc. For some it might make more sense to look at going dual mono first. But if you've got everything pretty much covered and are looking for an upgrade path then this is the real deal. As I said: Devialet on steroids! It's extraordinary.
I do think the Aries shouldn't be completely discounted though. It's highly likely that future firmware update will bring improvements to SQ. It has a lovely iPad control point and in some setups it might sound great. There is a lot to like about it's sound quality. Having said that the elephant in the room here is AIR. If sound quality is your most important criteria you might want to compare it to AIR before parting with any cash.
A final note on AIR. As we've been discussing in this thread and many others this seems to come in many different flavours. Wired, ethernet, different applications (Audirvana Plus, J River, iTunes etc). Even within the applications there are many different settings. I also found that improvements to network infrastructure and grounding made a difference here. There are no doubt improvements to be had from better power supplies and optimised software in the host computer. I know a couple on here have been startled by the effect of adding an AudioQuest Diamond ethernet cable to their network. In short there are lots of things one can do to optimise the sound of AIR and I'm sure it will only get better with future software updates. Indeed I was very surprised (and impressed!) at the improvement in the SQ of AIR between last year and more recently.
Right, I'm taking a break from testing and I'm going to enjoy the music. That's all folks!
Guillaume
RE: Mac AIR v MiND 180 v Auralic ARIES v totaldac d1 server - patcam - 07-Sep-2014
(07-Sep-2014, 09:02)GuillaumeB Wrote:(06-Sep-2014, 21:41)Divasson Wrote: Sorry, to make things clear for me: what were the settings in A+ and Air that you made? Were you sourcing from Itunes or directly by lists in Audirvana? Were you able to change sampling rates?
Hi Divasson, the only setting we changed was Direct Mode - see image below. Re the tracks these were dragged and dropped (from folders on my Mac) into the A+ playlist window. iTunes wasn't used at all.
Guillaume
Hello,
Guillaume & Rufus, can you confirm your set up with A+ with or without integer mode ?
For me, with A+/Air, it is not possible to use integer mode, even if you have selected it, if you close and restart A+, there is no sound.
Maybe, if you drag and drop the track from folder to A+, without Itunes, it can work. But in this case, Air is not compatible with automatic bit perfect, you have to change manually the sampling frequency.
I have done these tests with wired ethernet, I suppose it is the same with wifi.
Thanks
RE: Mac AIR v MiND 180 v Auralic ARIES v totaldac d1 server - GuillaumeB - 07-Sep-2014
(07-Sep-2014, 13:30)patcam Wrote:(07-Sep-2014, 09:02)GuillaumeB Wrote:(06-Sep-2014, 21:41)Divasson Wrote: Sorry, to make things clear for me: what were the settings in A+ and Air that you made? Were you sourcing from Itunes or directly by lists in Audirvana? Were you able to change sampling rates?
Hi Divasson, the only setting we changed was Direct Mode - see image below. Re the tracks these were dragged and dropped (from folders on my Mac) into the A+ playlist window. iTunes wasn't used at all.
Guillaume
Hello,
Guillaume & Rufus, can you confirm your set up with A+ with or without integer mode ?
For me, with A+/Air, it is not possible to use integer mode, even if you have selected it, if you close and restart A+, there is no sound.
Maybe, if you drag and drop the track from folder to A+, without Itunes, it can work. But in this case, Air is not compatible with automatic bit perfect, you have to change manually the sampling frequency.
I have done these tests with wired ethernet, I suppose it is the same with wifi.
Thanks
Only Direct Mode was selected. I have not been able to get it to work in Integer Mode.
Yes, I have to manually change the sampling frequency.
Cheers
Guillaume
RE: Mac AIR v MiND 180 v Auralic ARIES v totaldac d1 server - Rufus McDufus - 07-Sep-2014
I was dragging and dropping tracks and also manually selection bit depth/rate. I must try it again just to confirm and figure what's going on.
RE: Mac AIR v MiND 180 v Auralic ARIES v totaldac d1 server - patcam - 07-Sep-2014
(07-Sep-2014, 14:37)Rufus McDufus Wrote: I was dragging and dropping tracks and also manually selection bit depth/rate. I must try it again just to confirm and figure what's going on.
Audivarna Plus from Mac (wireless, integer mode on, not from iTunes (I think)) - wow, this is good
Thanks Rufus because I don't understand, are you sure you use A+/Air wireless/ integer mode / without Itunes ?