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+--- Thread: Mac AIR v MiND 180 v Auralic ARIES v totaldac d1 server (/Thread-Mac-AIR-v-MiND-180-v-Auralic-ARIES-v-totaldac-d1-server)
RE: Mac AIR v MiND 180 v Auralic ARIES v totaldac d1 server - PhilP - 02-Sep-2014
(02-Sep-2014, 21:27)ThierryNK Wrote: Hi everybody
Are you sure that "AIR alone" does exist? Or is it ITunes that "plays" and AIR is in charge of transfer?
It is now "clear" from Devialet Website who does what:
http://en.devialet.com/technology/devialet-air-en/
The new Devialet AIR Wi-Fi streamer lets you play your music in bit perfect mode. This mode is for users who play high-resolution files (superior to CD format). It avoids having your computer’s operating system alter your music file’s sampling frequency before transmitting it to your Devialet.
This mode depends on the audio architecture used by your computer. Access is therefore different for Mac and Windows.
With Mac, it is guaranteed automatically from iTunes when the "Bit perfect" option is enabled in the Devialet AIR application’s settings.
With Windows Vista, it can also be accessed automatically from several audio players by selecting WASAPI as the audio outlet in your player’s settings. These include free players such as Foobar 2000, Winamp and XBMC or commercial players such as JRiver, Adobe Audition, JPlay. This is not the case for iTunes with Windows or Windows Media Player, on the other hand.
It is always possible to play in bit perfect mode manually by adjusting the sampling frequency in the Devialet AIR application’s settings as needed for the format of the files you want to play.
For those interested (just send me an email) I can provide an article written by a real time computing expert that explains what I had difficulties to make clear in previous posts. The article is in French and is a bit "technical" but can be read and understood if spending the necessary time.
Cheers
Thierry
Thierry,
Yes, you're quite right AIR never works just on its own, of course, there must always be a player as well
With A+ I was only thinking about the case of it running on a Mac. This is where several of us have had problems enabling A+ functionality like Integer Mode so A+ is only 'working with' AIR in a limited way. The information about how AIR works from the Devialet site is only high level - it doesn't really explain what AIR works at a lower level which is the interesting part or whether/how it works with Players other than iTunes on an iMac
RE: Mac AIR v MiND 180 v Auralic ARIES v totaldac d1 server - ThierryNK - 02-Sep-2014
Hi PhilP
I find it very satisfactory that Devialet web site explains that the "player" plays and AIR "transfers". It was not so clear before.
For Audirvana (I have a license that I use to DAC reviews), some options as Integer Mode depend on how the DAC or an audio gear as Devialet declares itself as an "audio card" to the Operating System.
So, if it is not possible to activate Integer mode or direct mode, it relies on AIR and how it declares the Devialet to OSX.
I know this does not help you
but it means that this question in more onDevialet's side than on Audirvana side. In the past there have been lists of DAC compatible with internet mode as here http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/updated-digital-analogue-converter-list-integer-mode-compatibility-audivrana-plus-13363/Cheers
Thierry
RE: Mac AIR v MiND 180 v Auralic ARIES v totaldac d1 server - Confused - 02-Sep-2014
Getting the thread nearer to it's original topic, is it not possible that the Totaldac is quite simply a little bit better than AIR? i.e. maybe AIR does do cleaver things coordinating and clocking data from a computer, but the Totaldac is simply doing much the same thing and maybe doing it just that little bit better? Assuming the Totaldac is not a rip off, and assuming it is competently designed, then it should be better than AIR, it is about five times the cost of an AIR module. So if the Totaldac is offering reasonable value for money, then yes, it should be able to outperform AIR?
RE: Mac AIR v MiND 180 v Auralic ARIES v totaldac d1 server - GuillaumeB - 02-Sep-2014
(02-Sep-2014, 22:14)Confused Wrote: Getting the thread nearer to it's original topic, is it not possible that the Totaldac is quite simply a little bit better than AIR? i.e. maybe AIR does do cleaver things coordinating and clocking data from a computer, but the Totaldac is simply doing much the same thing and maybe doing it just that little bit better? Assuming the Totaldac is not a rip off, and assuming it is competently designed, then it should be better than AIR, it is about five times the cost of an AIR module. So if the Totaldac is offering reasonable value for money, then yes, it should be able to outperform AIR?
Well if you think about it AIR is an app sitting on someone else's computer... and which depends on that person's music player software of choice. There are lots of variables, hence the differences in SQ between A+, iTunes, Mac etc, not to mention power supplies and operating systems. Some are getting white noise and dropouts, others not.
The d1 server on the other hand is a perfectly optimised "single purpose" computer/unit where all the elements (software and hardware) are controlled and optimised by totaldac. Only sound quality is important.
Guillaume
RE: Mac AIR v MiND 180 v Auralic ARIES v totaldac d1 server - Antoine - 02-Sep-2014
The more I read about possible reasons for differences between bit perfect audio playback the more confused I get. No one really seems to know the anwer (or is not willing to give it)
I'm giving up for now/I'm done reading and continue on the road I was already on; further tweaking and tuning of my own home brewn music server, just for the fun of it! Here some of the authors of the different playback software try to answer the question regarding differences: http://www.audiostream.com/content/media-player-qa-q4-what-makes-one-media-player-sound-different-another
Here John Svenson tries to answer this question in a 3 part essay:
http://www.audiostream.com/content/qa-john-swenson-part-1-what-digital
http://www.audiostream.com/content/qa-john-swenson-part-2-are-bits-just-bits
http://www.audiostream.com/content/qa-john-swenson-part-3-how-bit-perfect-software-can-affect-sound
JPlay's take, including discussing real time operation: http://www.audiostream.com/content/jplay-responds-open-letter
Measuring the different Mac players (TG I'm using Windows as a playback machine
): http://archimago.blogspot.nl/2013/05/measurements-bit-perfect-audiophile.htmlOn a general subject, here all the answers to the 10 questions asked to the makers of the different players: http://www.audiostream.com/content/media-player-qa-10-questions-8-companies
RE: Mac AIR v MiND 180 v Auralic ARIES v totaldac d1 server - PhilP - 02-Sep-2014
(02-Sep-2014, 22:08)ThierryNK Wrote: Hi PhilP
I find it very satisfactory that Devialet web site explains that the "player" plays and AIR "transfers". It was not so clear before.
For Audirvana (I have a license that I use to DAC reviews), some options as Integer Mode depend on how the DAC or an audio gear as Devialet declares itself as an "audio card" to the Operating System.
So, if it is not possible to activate Integer mode or direct mode, it relies on AIR and how it declares the Devialet to OSX.
I know this does not help you
Cheers
Thierry
Thanks for the link etc. noticing the dates of the posts I see these types of discussion have been going on for some time
To be honest, I find the Audirvana User interface painful to use so I will either continue to use iTunes/AIR accepting some sonic compromises or else move to a streamer like the totaldac and not worry too much about how AIR works.
I look forward to readng more reviews from you in the future.
Salut!
Philip
RE: Mac AIR v MiND 180 v Auralic ARIES v totaldac d1 server - Antoine - 02-Sep-2014
(02-Sep-2014, 22:14)Confused Wrote: Getting the thread nearer to it's original topic, is it not possible that the Totaldac is quite simply a little bit better than AIR? i.e. maybe AIR does do cleaver things coordinating and clocking data from a computer, but the Totaldac is simply doing much the same thing and maybe doing it just that little bit better? Assuming the Totaldac is not a rip off, and assuming it is competently designed, then it should be better than AIR, it is about five times the cost of an AIR module. So if the Totaldac is offering reasonable value for money, then yes, it should be able to outperform AIR?
I guess some people (including myself) just want to understand the why and how.
And how much something costs has, to me, never been more than an indicator of the products quality or better said how well the makers believe it's quality is.
RE: Mac AIR v MiND 180 v Auralic ARIES v totaldac d1 server - GuillaumeB - 02-Sep-2014
(02-Sep-2014, 22:31)Antoine Wrote: I'm done reading and continue on the road I was already on; further tweaking and tuning of my own home brewn music server, just for the fun of it!
Too right Antoine! Some great links there too, thanks!
We will get there one day...
Guillaume
RE: Mac AIR v MiND 180 v Auralic ARIES v totaldac d1 server - PhilP - 02-Sep-2014
(02-Sep-2014, 22:31)Antoine Wrote: The more I read about possible reasons for differences between bit perfect audio playback the more confused I get. No one really seems to know the anwer (or is not willing to give it)
I think I've just about reached the same conclusion re. the futility of trying to understand... though I may try to wade through the impressive list of articles that you've compiled
Re. The home brew music server - why don't you collaborate with Kunter on a Cubox-based solution ?
RE: Mac AIR v MiND 180 v Auralic ARIES v totaldac d1 server - Confused - 02-Sep-2014
(02-Sep-2014, 22:30)GuillaumeB Wrote: Well if you think about it AIR is an app sitting on someone else's computer... and which depends on that person's music player software of choice. There are lots of variables, hence the differences in SQ between A+, iTunes, Mac etc, not to mention power supplies and operating systems. Some are getting white noise and dropouts, others not.
The d1 server on the other hand is a perfectly optimised "single purpose" computer/unit where all the elements (software and hardware) are controlled and optimised by totaldac. Only sound quality is important.
Guillaume
Indeed so, but not to forget one half of AIR is inside the Devialet itself, that is a memory buffer, the electronics for asynchronous clocking etc. The point being the that the Totaldac is effectively by passing everything up to the Devialet's DAC, and quite possibly doing it rather well?