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+--- Thread: Expert Pro sound quality (/Thread-Expert-Pro-sound-quality)
RE: Expert Pro sound quality - gray - 24-Oct-2016
(23-Oct-2016, 03:57)boba2013 Wrote: I wonder why if you upgrade any of the Expert systems, you get between 10 to 40 watts increase and for the 800, boost of 200 watts but the 250 does not get any watt boosts???
I wonder why it is the lonely duck?
Can someone help me understand this slight on the wonderful Le250?
cheers
Bob
My guess it that it gives upgrade wriggle room.
Since Devialet is committed to regular upgrades it doesn't make sense for them to play all their trump cards at the initial release.
When a D250pro gets upgraded for "free" in one years time to become a D300pro it creates enormous publicity oxygen and also delights the owners.
RE: Expert Pro sound quality - Hifi_swlon - 24-Oct-2016
(24-Oct-2016, 01:03)Pim van Vliet Wrote:(23-Oct-2016, 16:00)Hifi_swlon Wrote:(23-Oct-2016, 03:57)boba2013 Wrote: I wonder why if you upgrade any of the Expert systems, you get between 10 to 40 watts increase and for the 800, boost of 200 watts but the 250 does not get any watt boosts???
I wonder why it is the lonely duck?
Can someone help me understand this slight on the wonderful Le250?
cheers
Bob
I've also asked Devialet support that very question. Herman seemed very knowledgeable (possibly from Devialet?) but it would be great to get the official line, not least on why if 40V was a limiting factor they didn't increase it for the Pro so it could take full advantage of its new copper base.
My best guess is that they are really at the maximum of what they can put into the casework as it is. There's only so much you can do in such a little case and it's quite unbelievable what they have achieved so far. No idea where they plan to put that streamer board they're working on. It must be tiny.
I'd understand that if they hadn't extracted 500W per side from the same case in dual mono.
As for r the streamer but board, things are tiny these days so it stands to reason the replacement will easily fit the space the previous one took. Look at a raspberry pi or the cpu section of the micro rendu (or an iphone). Were talking large postage stamps.
RE: Expert Pro sound quality - Inox - 24-Oct-2016
Hi,
It looks like you get power x4 when you go double mono using BRIDGED amps, which is the case for Devialet.
A 250 pro is at its maximum output at 2x250 watts.
A D1000 is 2x1000 watts under 6 ohms load but each unit perceves in fact only half the load (3 ohms) to give those 1000 watts. 1000 watts under 3 ohms correspond to 500 w under 6 ohms.
So I think there is no more power to expect from a D250, except if there is an hardware or/and case upgrade.
It seems that for the D220 there is a software power limitation due to the case and its more limited cooling capabilities : 2x220 watts mono and 2x440 double mono that should be 2x880 watts without reduction.
Regards
RE: Expert Pro sound quality - Hifi_swlon - 24-Oct-2016
(24-Oct-2016, 14:49)Inox Wrote: So I think there is no more power to expect from a D250, except if there is an hardware or/and case upgrade.
Isn't that what's just happened, on both counts?!
RE: Expert Pro sound quality - Inox - 25-Oct-2016
Yes, and.. No.
About power, I believe upgrades only allowed the 250 watts mono to go x4 fully to 1000 watts Duo. But there was no increase of the 250 watts Devialet power basis.
For D200, which is I suppose on the same D250 basis, upgrades allowed to push software limitation from 200 to 220 watts (probably thermal limitaition) and 440 w duo.
RE: Expert Pro sound quality - Hifi_swlon - 25-Oct-2016
(25-Oct-2016, 10:33)Inox Wrote: Yes, and.. No.
About power, I believe upgrades only allowed the 250 watts mono to go x4 fully to 1000 watts Duo. But there was no increase of the 250 watts Devialet power basis.
For D200, which is I suppose on the same D250 basis, upgrades allowed to push software limitation from 200 to 220 watts (probably thermal limitaition) and 440 w duo.
I didn't mean the outcome, I meant the update from 250 to 250Pro included a number of hardware revisions, including;
New copper base plate for better thermal management.
New class A and D amps
New power supply
New ADH
New magic wire
Yet seemingly none of these had any positive effect on the available power of the 250, whereas it did for all other models. I can't make much sense of that. Maybe they just think the '250' sounds cool. Anyway don't wish to drag things off-topic so will leave it there.
Looking forward to hearing from a few more upgraders......
RE: Expert Pro sound quality - mdconnelly - 25-Oct-2016
I don't quite understand Devialet's strategy regarding the 250 Pro. It's not actually listed under the models available on Devialet.com although when you go to the Configurator, it is listed and, of course, it is part of the upgrade program from either a 250 or a D-Premier.
This might suggest that Devialet doesn't want the 250 Pro part of their long-term product line-up. Then again, this is Devialet. While one would assume they actually have a strategy regarding this, it's not obvious (or maybe I'm just missing something?)
RE: Expert Pro sound quality - Inox - 26-Oct-2016
Hello,
I'm going to try to give you an overview of my impressions after a few hours passed with my new D250 Pro.
First of all, my comparison will rely on a former D200 I listened carefully on my system, exactly the same one used with the D250 Pro (Upgraded mac Mini / Audirvana / Dirac Plugin / Air3 / Thiel CS 3.7)
What is obvious :
-D250 Pro heats much less ; slightly warm after 2 hours playing ;
-better soundstage, wider, deeper and vast. More air ;
-more musical ; better fluidity and musical notes ending ;
-the sonic signature is more flexible, luminous, and elegant. As transparent but not as sharp. I would say more natural (a bit smoother) ;
-no lack of power impression ;
-better rendering at low volume (more dynamics).
-low frequencies : a bit more controlled (due to increase of power I suppose) with many details and background noises : seems to have a lot more to listen in this area.
What is the same :
-Transparency, and a marvellous quality of tones, specially with acoustic instruments and voices. Better result with Air3 on my system.
-Punch, impact (modulo increase of power).
-It's always a Devialet
!Regards,
I.
RE: Expert Pro sound quality - Pim - 26-Oct-2016
(25-Oct-2016, 16:37)mdconnelly Wrote: I don't quite understand Devialet's strategy regarding the 250 Pro. It's not actually listed under the models available on Devialet.com although when you go to the Configurator, it is listed and, of course, it is part of the upgrade program from either a 250 or a D-Premier.
This might suggest that Devialet doesn't want the 250 Pro part of their long-term product line-up. Then again, this is Devialet. While one would assume they actually have a strategy regarding this, it's not obvious (or maybe I'm just missing something?)
I think you are missing something. The line up now is 130, 220, 440, 1000 from cheapest to most expensive.
Putting the 250 in that range for the same coin as the 440 would make it the odd one out. Which in a way it is, unless you use it as a stepping stone to a 1000. And if you don't need the power but want a one box solution there's the 220.
The 250 on its own now is really just a 220 with 30 more Watts, a different case (some might even like the straighter lines of the 220 more so I wouldn't call it better looking) and a heavier remote.
So if you were asked whether you were prepared to pay twice as much for a bigger remote, a bigger case and 13.6% more power, what would your answer be? I bet the only time you would think of saying yes would be if you were planning to upgrade to 1000.
RE: Expert Pro sound quality - Hifi_swlon - 26-Oct-2016
I think you're right Pim, but it's always been said that the 250 is better than the 200 for reasons beyond power. (I've been researching this a bit over the past few months). Ok, probably not better enough to warrant the price, but if you want the best 'one box' setup it should be the 250. It's still sold by dealers but maybe Devialet prefer people to buy a 400 for the same money. Or maybe hardly any are sold? You'd think they'd want 250's to sell, because then there's potential for a companion purchase. Or maybe most people that can afford a 1000 just buy it outright?
The thing that still perplexes me is why it is still a 250 now it's a pro. Will be interesting to see if Devialet reply to me about it.