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+--- Thread: Do you use SAM? (/Thread-Do-you-use-SAM)
RE: Do you use SAM? - Jonas - 24-Sep-2017
If I do use SAM? No, because then I'll have to buy other speakers which are SAM ready. The SAMlab seems to show up more seldom than Santa does. The interest from Devialet in this question looks pretty weak: https://www.devialet.com/en-eu/expert/#sam/ Probably one could easily improve the sales of D with a more active SAM staff. Easy to demo the effect by D stores and otherwise. If one sell exclusive cars, why only offer some customers accessories if money aint the issue?
RE: Do you use SAM? - tom539 - 24-Sep-2017
No - because my speakers are not SAM-ready...
RE: Do you use SAM? - audio_engr - 24-Sep-2017
SAM @ 100% is ON for me ... And yes, it makes a difference for the better when ON with the B&Ws ...
RE: Do you use SAM? - Vivialet - 25-Sep-2017
on with 0% in the past, off since yesterday. After some system tuning on the digital frontend (Mutec Ref10) I noticed that I can get better resolution and transparency without it. Speakers are Giya G2.
RE: Do you use SAM? - Confused - 25-Sep-2017
(25-Sep-2017, 15:23)Vivialet Wrote: on with 0% in the past, off since yesterday. After some system tuning on the digital frontend (Mutec Ref10) I noticed that I can get better resolution and transparency without it. Speakers are Giya G2.
That's an interesting comment Vivialet! How are you using the REF10? Is this with a Mutec MC3+USB? I would certainly be interested in your observations after adding the REF10, this is something I am considering myself. Although perhaps something to add to SwissBears's REF10 thread rather than going 'off topic' here, link below for easy reference:
https://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?tid=4516&highlight=REF10
RE: Do you use SAM? - SwissBear - 25-Sep-2017
(25-Sep-2017, 15:23)Vivialet Wrote: on with 0% in the past, off since yesterday. After some system tuning on the digital frontend (Mutec Ref10) I noticed that I can get better resolution and transparency without it. Speakers are Giya G2.
You might want to take into consideration the fact that SAM is altering the acoustic phase. Not sure if I already published this graph. In blue, the acoustic phase at the listening position with SAM off, in red with SAM on.
[img]
![[Image: 188212SAMPhase.jpg]](https://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=188212SAMPhase.jpg)
[/img]So if you do not correct for the phase with an active correction, and with the clearer picture allowed by the Ref-10, you might hear changes that you did not hear before, for instance an alteration of the sound stage linked to this change in acoustic phase when SAM is on.
Having a Ref-10 syncing a Mutec MC-3+ USB, I still have SAM on since I am correcting the acoustic phase.
RE: Do you use SAM? - Vivialet - 26-Sep-2017
I'm using mathaudio Room EQ which is also correcting the phase. I also think that SAM is already correcting the phase by itself, so the phase should be more correct with SAM on than with SAM off. Currently I'm using the REF10 with 2 MC-3 USB in a cascaded configuration, and SAM off is clearly better for imaging and details. I'm still using the Room EQ of course.
But the effect of SAM depends on the speaker, for the Giya I can only use it with the Room-EQ, otherwise it is too much bass, even with SAM at 0%.
RE: Do you use SAM? - yabaVR - 26-Sep-2017
(25-Sep-2017, 15:23)Vivialet Wrote: on with 0% in the past, off since yesterday. After some system tuning on the digital frontend (Mutec Ref10) I noticed that I can get better resolution and transparency without it. Speakers are Giya G2.
Hi Vivialet, your perception is exactly right.
The more 'In Phase' your digital frontend signal (the signals bits&bites) gets the more you won't need (or do reject) SAM in your system.
SAM is a disimprovement for an audiophile listener who has tuned his system to the point where subtle changes in the (digital) chain can cause immense deterioration.
Transparency is a consequence when one can reduce jitter and improves 'In Phase Signal Integrity' in his audio chain. If you then add something like SAM that corrupts this integrity it's a must you loose transparency again.
SAM gives a 'virtual transparency' to an audio system as it 'cuts' off the tinyest of the signals due to phase shifts it produces (it swirls the phase of this tiny signals so your brain can't locate them together again. The swirled informations just add to background of your music then).
This 'virtual transparency' you can hear in form of better locatability of instruments and voices...more air (the void) all around the instruments...at least so it seems.
But that's an illusion...because better locatability in this case comes from cutting of the 'space' (tiny informations) around instruments and voices. It cuts off the tiny information of the recording room (only the big bulk of it stays and you have better perception of this) and adds void to the scene hence the 'virtual transparency' you perceive. Your brain has less to work hence can better locate the origins of sounds.
If your system hasn't achieved a certain level of accuracy for the signal (signal phase integrity) yet you might gain more than you loose by using SAM.
But at a certain level of transparency you won't let go at this fascination of listening into the details and emotions of your music you never heard in such clarity.
I hope I could contribute to the fuzzy of space & time
gui
*
it's no arrogance intended here
RE: Do you use SAM? - SwissBear - 26-Sep-2017
I don't have the same experience.
In my own trip to transparency, the major contributors have been the ones identified long ago by Antoine on this site:
- buy a Paul Hynes LPSU and use it to power my MacMini
- transform the MC-3+ USB, remove the stock SPSU and power it with the PH
- integrate an SOtM sMS-200 Ultra
Out of curiosity, @Vivialet:
- have you observed a major difference with 2 stacked MC-+ USB compared to one when synced with the Ref-10 ?
- are your two MC-3+ USB using the stock SPSU or did you transform them ? In this case, what LPSU are you using ?
RE: Do you use SAM? - Jonas - 26-Sep-2017
(25-Sep-2017, 15:23)Vivialet Wrote: on with 0% in the past, off since yesterday. After some system tuning on the digital frontend (Mutec Ref10) I noticed that I can get better resolution and transparency without it. Speakers are Giya G2.
So perhaps there's no particular reason hunting SAM ready speakers. When I started to use Crystal Cable something similar happened and now the HQPlayer is off.