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"Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - Printable Version

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RE: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - Kunter - 29-Jun-2019

Hi Guys...

Long time no see...

Unfortunately I am no more part of the Devialet family, but still miss my D800 dearly.

Anyhow, a lot of water has passed under the bridge an now I have a much simpler system (see the signature).

I have been following topics on and off, and since I am still very much into digital streaming, this one picked my attention. I would like to give my 2c...

I am a big fan of audiophile switches and very much enjoy my now aging battery powered Paul Pang switch. (which reaches to the dCS Network Bridge using TP Link Media Converters (battery powered) and all copper cables are SOTM CAT7).

What I want to mention is the router bit. My room is on another floor from my internet access. I recently moved to Google Mesh network so I can have a wireless access to internet from my listening room. The reason to move to the Google system (from Apple set) was that the Google Mesh nodes are powered by USB-C so I thought I could power that last bit by battery as well. Boy I was right. A simple Anker battery is now powering my mesh access, which is then connected to the PPA switch. Using a decent USB-C cable from Samsung, the performance is beautiful. Not only on Tidal but through Roon local disk as well. I now have Audioquest Cinnamon USB cable on order, which, I hope, will further improve the setup.

Cheers...

Kunter


RE: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - baconbrain - 29-Jun-2019

(22-Jun-2019, 08:57)Blackmorec Wrote: Quite a fair portion of the Innuos Zenith SE’s and Statement’s realistic sound is down to the SJ power supplies. With the DC3 you’ll hear the same qualities of pace, rhythm and timing (fabulously intense rhythmic interactions), clarity, purity, beautifully refined and accurate dynamics that give things like brass and piano that intensity that makes them sound very realistic and believable.

I don’t want to hijack this thread with an off-topic, but just wanted to share briefly my experience over the last couple of days with Custom HiFi Cables Ltd. and in particular Sean Jacobs. Being a Zenith SE owner, I can appreciate the sonic quality of the work Sean puts into his PSU‘s. So, when that is backed with an exceptional level of customer service, I believe that warrants mention. I must honestly admit that it has been quite a while since I have experienced a level of professional competence, timely responses (evenings, weekends, early mornings) and just downright friendliness, as with Sean over the last few days. A clear recommendation from my side to anyone who is considering an audio grade PSU. I will be extremely surprised if you regret it.


RE: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - Johnnydev - 08-Jul-2019

(16-Jun-2019, 14:20)GuillaumeB Wrote: Hi all, the Telegärtner M12 Gold has been here for a few days.  Big Grin

Overall very impressive indeed although I am yet to conduct proper A/B testing with the SOtM. I hope to have a bit of time over the next few days and will report back.

What I should point out thus far however is that I have now settled with one media converter between router and first switch (SOtM). For some reason with 2 media converters (creating the bridge) and feeding my Draytek switch which in turn fed the SOtM (x2) via a 20M run of AQ Carbon ethernet cable resulted in a sound that whilst initially quite impressive I found a little too airy and not focussed enough, resulting in reduced enjoyment and some head scratching on my part.

Now I don't know much about these things but I wondered if in that setup the bridge wasn't "robbing Peter to pay Paul".

In the current setup I have therefore made 2 big changes: one is replacing the Draytek with one of the SOtM switches, and removing one media converter from the equation. As a result I can't be sure why I prefer what I now hear, there are just too many variables. But this is clearly better than having an optical bridge feeding into the Draytek which in turn feeds 2 bridged SOtMs. 

To properly A/B the Telegärtner and SOtM switches I will need to reinsert the Draytek, remove the bridge.... essentially simplify everything back down. 

Guillaume


Hi Guillaume 

Any news? Rolleyes


RE: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - Johnnydev - 13-Jul-2019

(08-Jul-2019, 19:17)Johnnydev Wrote:
(16-Jun-2019, 14:20)GuillaumeB Wrote: Hi all, the Telegärtner M12 Gold has been here for a few days.  Big Grin

Overall very impressive indeed although I am yet to conduct proper A/B testing with the SOtM. I hope to have a bit of time over the next few days and will report back.

What I should point out thus far however is that I have now settled with one media converter between router and first switch (SOtM). For some reason with 2 media converters (creating the bridge) and feeding my Draytek switch which in turn fed the SOtM (x2) via a 20M run of AQ Carbon ethernet cable resulted in a sound that whilst initially quite impressive I found a little too airy and not focussed enough, resulting in reduced enjoyment and some head scratching on my part.

Now I don't know much about these things but I wondered if in that setup the bridge wasn't "robbing Peter to pay Paul".

In the current setup I have therefore made 2 big changes: one is replacing the Draytek with one of the SOtM switches, and removing one media converter from the equation. As a result I can't be sure why I prefer what I now hear, there are just too many variables. But this is clearly better than having an optical bridge feeding into the Draytek which in turn feeds 2 bridged SOtMs. 

To properly A/B the Telegärtner and SOtM switches I will need to reinsert the Draytek, remove the bridge.... essentially simplify everything back down. 

Guillaume


Hi Guillaume 

Any news? 



RE: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - DavidE - 05-Aug-2019

This is a hobby that can quickly drive anyone nuts.  

That's why I've been listening to High-End for 40 years or so.  

And it's enjoyable.


RE: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - Marcin_gps - 30-Aug-2019

(13-Jul-2019, 14:27)Johnnydev Wrote:
(08-Jul-2019, 19:17)Johnnydev Wrote:
(16-Jun-2019, 14:20)GuillaumeB Wrote: Hi all, the Telegärtner M12 Gold has been here for a few days.  Big Grin

Overall very impressive indeed although I am yet to conduct proper A/B testing with the SOtM. I hope to have a bit of time over the next few days and will report back.

What I should point out thus far however is that I have now settled with one media converter between router and first switch (SOtM). For some reason with 2 media converters (creating the bridge) and feeding my Draytek switch which in turn fed the SOtM (x2) via a 20M run of AQ Carbon ethernet cable resulted in a sound that whilst initially quite impressive I found a little too airy and not focussed enough, resulting in reduced enjoyment and some head scratching on my part.

Now I don't know much about these things but I wondered if in that setup the bridge wasn't "robbing Peter to pay Paul".

In the current setup I have therefore made 2 big changes: one is replacing the Draytek with one of the SOtM switches, and removing one media converter from the equation. As a result I can't be sure why I prefer what I now hear, there are just too many variables. But this is clearly better than having an optical bridge feeding into the Draytek which in turn feeds 2 bridged SOtMs. 

To properly A/B the Telegärtner and SOtM switches I will need to reinsert the Draytek, remove the bridge.... essentially simplify everything back down. 

Guillaume


Hi Guillaume 

Any news? 
@GuillaumeB 
Come on, there are many guys anticipating your impressions Smile

Best regards,
Marcin Ostapowicz
JPLAY & JCAT Founder


RE: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - GuillaumeB - 05-Sep-2019

(30-Aug-2019, 07:13)Marcin_gps Wrote:
(13-Jul-2019, 14:27)Johnnydev Wrote:
(08-Jul-2019, 19:17)Johnnydev Wrote: Hi Guillaume 

Any news? 
@GuillaumeB 
Come on, there are many guys anticipating your impressions Smile

Best regards,
Marcin Ostapowicz
JPLAY & JCAT Founder

Indeed and I must apologise to all on here for such a long delay.

The truth is that I found myself down a bit of a rabbit hole with endless variables and changing observations. I will therefore try and summarise my overall findings.

I spent a lot of time with the Telegärtner M12. I really liked it. There was something about the music that just sounded "right" and flowed. I should add that the M12 is very much a "closed" system. That is it comes with special ethernet cables, and by special I mean cables with M12 industrial connectors at one end (and very fancy looking "gold" Telegärtner MFP8 connectors at the other end, apparently used on the ISS space station!! See here: https://www.telegaertner.com/en/infostream/telegaertner-iss/). It is therefore not possible to use different brands of ethernet cable with the M12 Switch Gold. I am guessing that the M12 connectors are designed for use in harsh environments (either outdoors or areas with a lot of EMI/RFI). Also the cables come with the one of most advanced test data sheets I have ever seen: 


.pdf   img20190613_13501407.pdf (Size: 649.54 KB / Downloads: 9)

Here is the MFP8 "gold" RJ45 connector:

   

   

   

The M12 connector (it's a beast!):

   

I spent a lot of time comparing the Telegärtner M12 and associated cables to the SOtM (sNH-10G with internal master clock option). To my ears the differences weren't great but something was clearly noticeable, namely that with the M12 the music just seemed that bit easier to follow/enjoy. I did a lot of A/Bing and almost drove myself crazy trying to pinpoint something in the sound... I must confess that I did start losing interest at various points! However, it did seem as though the M12 was better but why I couldn't quite put my finger on it! 

Then Rob came to visit and he was really surprised by how great the differences were (!), his preference being clearly for the M12 which he felt was more dynamic. I'll let Rob post some of his impressions here (if he wants to!). I was pretty careful not to tell Rob what I thought before hand and with Rob sitting in the sweet spot I was able to make quite rapid changes from one switch to the other.

The M12 switch Gold was sent to me with its medical SMPS unit, in addition to a HDPLEX 200W LPSU. The LPSU seemed to make a small improvement to the M12 but in my opinion it was pretty subtle. With that said I spend most of my time testing with the LPSU.

One of the things that I liked less about the M12 were the ethernet cables, nothing to do with sound (since I couldn't compare them to anything else) but rather they were quite difficult to orientate. The cables are quite stiff making A/B comparisons a little tricky. But this is a pretty minor gripe since once in situ this isn't really an issue!

So what do I think overall? The M12 Switch Gold is a great all-in-one solution, literally plug and play and forget about it. Compared to an SOtM with the best ethernet cables I could throw at it, it was slightly better. If you include cables in the mix (and of course the additional PSU required for the SOtM) you are in similar territory £$ wise. The M12 Switch Gold ships with 2 Telegärtner cables and I believe you can spec the lengths when you order.

However, once you start daisy chaining SOtMs and using an external Masterclock it is possible to improve on the performance of single SOtM and exceed that of the M12 Gold. Unfortunately I did not have access to a master clock during the M12 Switch Gold evaluation period so I am not able to say whether its was able to beat a single SOtM with a connection to a master clock.

Lastly I would like to thank Marcin at JCAT for giving me the opportunity to try this fantastic switch.  Smile

Cheers,

Guillaume


RE: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - Rufus McDufus - 05-Sep-2019

Well I'll add my findings to Guillaumes's. I've been more than a bit nervous to write anything as it's all subjective, no science involved in my viewpoint at all and all done for fun. Shoot me down in flames! I wasn't expecting any difference at all, yet I found it slightly more dynamic and fuller with the Telegartner, but with the SOtM somehow more narrow in presentation yet possibly more detail.
Why? I have no idea. It defies logic. Cognitive bias? Quite likely, but I had no idea if one option is supposed to be better than the other and didn't expect to be able to hear any differences. Something exposing a flaw elsewhere? Could be. Guillaumes's system is super-resolving and realistic and I seem to be able to hear things I couldn't hope to hear on mine. Differences are small, if any, and I suspect there are alternative methods of striving towards audio nirvana with a better cost/benefit ratio!


RE: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - baconbrain - 06-Sep-2019

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the review! Your findings fold into my expectations in regards to the the small degree of SQ difference between these two quality components. I believe my preference would lie with the SOtM Switch given the added functionality (fiber), the somewhat more forgiving connector flexibility, and aesthetics.


RE: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - Marcin_gps - 06-Sep-2019

@GuillaumeB , @Rufus McDufus Thank you for the report!

Best regards,
Marcin Ostapowicz
JPLAY & JCAT Founder