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"Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - Printable Version

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RE: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - Confused - 16-Dec-2019

@octaviars - I think 46 to 48 deg C is consistent with my less scientific "it feels hot but you can hold your hand on it" assessment. We can agree that this is very hot indeed in comparison to a normal Ethernet switch!

I too am particularly interested in the comparison of feeding the Devialet directly with RAAT with my "spaghetti" solution. You could argue that the effect of the EtherRegen must be somewhat limited if it is followed by a network attached endpoint, a USB cleaner, a USB to AES/EBU reclocker. By comparison, there are many who state that the audiophile ideal is Ethernet direct to DAC. In my case, I much prefer the sound of my system via the "spaghetti" route, but will be fascinated to discover how the EtherRegen may change the relative performance of the two input methods.

@David A - It is perhaps worth clarifying that in my system, RAAT direct to the Devialet simply does not work with 24/192 material. With the first seconds of the first play it is either stuttering or an error message, so somewhat different to your situation. In my case, adding the EtherRegen takes CI board RAAT from not working to working fine. OK, an example of just one, others my get different results, but promising I would say. I agree that there are cheaper ways of achieving 100Base-T, so yes, we are all hoping for sound quality improvements on top.

My "cliff edge" test on Sunday was time restricted, and I had other commitments for the rest of the day. Sunday evening I had time for a very quick listen with the EtherRegen in place. This was "full spaghetti", with some very familiar music. First to say that my jaw literally stayed where it was, but I did find myself thinking that things maybe sounded a little nicer. There was one track in particular with a snare drum that annoys me a bit, it just adds a touch of harshness that is almost heard direct from the tweeter. With my quick listen Sunday it sounded like a snare "in space", directly between the speakers. Now, I could be imagining this, it could be that some earwax fell out of one ear during the night, I am really not sure. It was, to me at least, and running from aural memory, a small but distinctive difference. I am not entirely sure if this is my brain playing tricks, but it is something I will be looking for when I perform some direct A/B tests, it might be repeatable or it might not.

I have a busy week coming up, but I should be able to try a few things this coming weekend. In summary, first impressions have got me very intrigued, but also wondering if I have gone crazy.


RE: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - ogs - 16-Dec-2019

Well, if the EtherRegen can close the gap to MC3/REF10 a little it is quite remarkable. Even the MC3 alone. Looking forward to further updates!


RE: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - David A - 17-Dec-2019

@Confused

Thanks for that. It sounds promising.

I think the problem we're all going to face, regardless of our symptoms, is simply the fact that an AB comparison, whether it be sighted, blind or double blind, is really not going to be viable. Armin on ASR talks about quickly swapping a single ethernet cable butty feeling is that most of us a re going to have to do a bit more than that.

In my case I'm currently using a Cisco SG1100D-05 switch to connect both my Nucleus+ and Devialet to my netwrk but replacing the Cisco switch with the ER requires disconnecting 3 cables from the Cisco and connecting them to the ER. That takes a few seconds and I can probably do it in under 5 seconds which is the maximum buffer I can set in Roon but I've then got to get back to my seat and try and get into the same listening frame of mind as I was in before I got up to make the swap and my frame of mind isn't going to change immediately I'm back in my seat. Experience tells me it usually takes me a couple of minutes to get back to critical listening mode after making a change in my system.

I can cut that process down. I can connect the ER to the Cisco switch and then simply disconnect the Devialet's cable from the Cisco and connect it to the ER but the problem with that is that my aim is to replace the Cisco and only have one switch in the system, not retain the Cisco and have 2 switches connected to each other. Would having the Cisco feeding the ER make a difference to what I hear? I don't know but the only way to answer that is to have another listening test where I compare having the 2 switches connected to a setup where I've disconnected the Nucleus+ and network from the Cisco and then connected them to the ER instead of the Cisco. What I want to do is to compare what I'm doing now to what I want to do which is simply replacing the Cisco with the ER and there's no way to make that comparison without disconnecting 3 cables from one device and connecting them to the second device. Simple and quick A/B comparisons simply aren't possible, even in what is essentially a very simple networked system.


RE: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - Snoopy8 - 17-Dec-2019

Here is my EtherREGEN review after burn-in and extended listening:

Current Setup
   
A simple UPnP setup using a MinimServer to get music from a NAS and serving to a pair of Devialet Phantom Gold (on DOS1).  Running convolution room correction on MinimServer. Using wired connections with standard Cat6 Ethernet cables to a Netgear Orbi switch, except for a Supra Cat8 cable to the Dialog (connected via PLC to Golds).

EtherREGEN Setup
   
Added EtherREGEN to setup with an additional standard Cat6 cable on “A side” and connected the Supra Cat8 cable to “B side”.

Listening Impressions

“WOW!” Was expecting some improvement but not such a big jump. Often, a new component may introduce subtle changes which require careful listening and many comparisons to identify any improvement.  For the EtherREGEN, the changes were obvious in the first few minutes of listening.  The background was darker which allowed more detail to come through.  All smearing was removed with a clarity that was unsurpassed.  Diana Krall’s “My love Is” starts with finger snapping. I have never heard how precise that snap was until now! Similarly, an old favourite, Salvatore Accardo’s rendition of the 1st movement of Pagnini’s Violin Concerto No. 4, sounded wonderful. It is the closest violin rendition to my benchmark, a live concert at a dedicated concert hall.

Have spent a lot of time doing convolution room correction to correct both impulse and phase. Managed to remove a significant amount of smearing and improved the sound stage.  The EtherREGEN essentially “completed the room correction” (not sure how else to describe it?) by removing all the smearing.

An A/B testing was not necessary, but I did it anyway.  There was a stark difference between the current setup and the EtherREGEN setup with the darker background and no smearing the obvious differences.

I could not stop listening the first evening and am still amazed at what the EtherREGEN could do. I bought the unit to evaluate (has a 30 day money back guarantee). It is NOT leaving my setup! 

p/s a linear power supply does improve things, more later...


RE: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - Johnnydev - 17-Dec-2019

(17-Dec-2019, 12:08)Snoopy8 Wrote: Here is my EtherREGEN review after burn-in and extended listening:

Current Setup

A simple UPnP setup using a MinimServer to get music from a NAS and serving to a pair of Devialet Phantom Gold (on DOS1).  Running convolution room correction on MinimServer. Using wired connections with standard Cat6 Ethernet cables to a Netgear Orbi switch, except for a Supra Cat8 cable to the Dialog (connected via PLC to Golds).

EtherREGEN Setup

Added EtherREGEN to setup with an additional standard Cat6 cable on “A side” and connected the Supra Cat8 cable to “B side”.

Listening Impressions

“WOW!” Was expecting some improvement but not such a big jump. Often, a new component may introduce subtle changes which require careful listening and many comparisons to identify any improvement.  For the EtherREGEN, the changes were obvious in the first few minutes of listening.  The background was darker which allowed more detail to come through.  All smearing was removed with a clarity that was unsurpassed.  Diana Krall’s “My love Is” starts with finger snapping. I have never heard how precise that snap was until now! Similarly, an old favourite, Salvatore Accardo’s rendition of the 1st movement of Pagnini’s Violin Concerto No. 4, sounded wonderful. It is the closest violin rendition to my benchmark, a live concert at a dedicated concert hall.

Have spent a lot of time doing convolution room correction to correct both impulse and phase. Managed to remove a significant amount of smearing and improved the sound stage.  The EtherREGEN essentially “completed the room correction” (not sure how else to describe it?) by removing all the smearing.

An A/B testing was not necessary, but I did it anyway.  There was a stark difference between the current setup and the EtherREGEN setup with the darker background and no smearing the obvious differences.

I could not stop listening the first evening and am still amazed at what the EtherREGEN could do. I bought the unit to evaluate (has a 30 day money back guarantee). It is NOT leaving my setup! 

p/s a linear power supply does improve things, more later...

nice 
how will you use the ER after the DOS 2 upgrade, without the dialog?



RE: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - ogs - 17-Dec-2019

Thanks @Snoopy8, very nice! Good question @Johnnydev! I have been thinking about this and have three schemes I'd like to try.

Use one EtherRegen and connect the B port to the main network and the two speakers to the A side. Nothing else on the A side
Use two EtherRegens and connect both from A side to the main network. One B port to each speaker.
Use two EtherRegens and connect the A sides on the two together with a separate cable. A single cable from an A port on one of the EtherRegens to the main network. One B port to each speaker.

The first alternative is probably what most of us will use. A good power supply would be important as the A side is used for the audio devices. Should work well.
The second is good if there is already cables from a main switch to each speaker.
The third alternative might be the best if the six remaining free A ports covers your needs for your networked music system. One A port to the router/wifi AP. Player and NAS etc. directly to EtherRegen A ports. One B port to each speaker.

There are other possible connections like one ER B side to a main switch. From A ports of this to A ports on two ERs. One B port to each speaker. So three EtherRegens! Getting quite pricy and maybe not the best! There are no reports on stacked EtherRegens yet so we do not know if this is advisable. Another is B<->B on two ERs, A port on the first to the main network, two speakers to the A side of the second ER. Again we don't know if stacking is worthwile so this is uncertain.

As there is an SFP cage on the EtherRegen, one can use SFPs as connection/isolation on the second, third and last alternative. Some report that not all SFP modules have optimal sound so it is probably a good idea to wait until "the battle of SFP modules" is more mature.


RE: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - audio_engr - 17-Dec-2019

(17-Dec-2019, 12:08)Snoopy8 Wrote: Listening Impressions

“WOW!” Was expecting some improvement but not such a big jump. Often, a new component may introduce subtle changes which require careful listening and many comparisons to identify any improvement.  For the EtherREGEN, the changes were obvious in the first few minutes of listening.  The background was darker which allowed more detail to come through.  All smearing was removed with a clarity that was unsurpassed.  Diana Krall’s “My love Is” starts with finger snapping. I have never heard how precise that snap was until now! Similarly, an old favourite, Salvatore Accardo’s rendition of the 1st movement of Pagnini’s Violin Concerto No. 4, sounded wonderful. It is the closest violin rendition to my benchmark, a live concert at a dedicated concert hall.

Have spent a lot of time doing convolution room correction to correct both impulse and phase. Managed to remove a significant amount of smearing and improved the sound stage.  The EtherREGEN essentially “completed the room correction” (not sure how else to describe it?) by removing all the smearing.

An A/B testing was not necessary, but I did it anyway.  There was a stark difference between the current setup and the EtherREGEN setup with the darker background and no smearing the obvious differences.

I could not stop listening the first evening and am still amazed at what the EtherREGEN could do. I bought the unit to evaluate (has a 30 day money back guarantee). It is NOT leaving my setup! 

p/s a linear power supply does improve things, more later...

Great .. Thank You !!

This is what I am expecting to hear from you guys ... 

=====================================

@Confused

I am also delighted to learn that plugging the B-Side direct to Devialet Expert CI allows 100Base-T to work ... [seamlessly & flawlessly OR not we'll have to establish].


RE: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - Snoopy8 - 18-Dec-2019

(17-Dec-2019, 14:10)Johnnydev Wrote: nice 
how will you use the ER after the DOS 2 upgrade, without the dialog?[/font][/size][/color]
I will test using your configuration of Ethernet cables to replace PLC.

(17-Dec-2019, 19:44)ogs Wrote: Thanks @Snoopy8, very nice!  Good question @Johnnydev! I have been thinking about this and have three schemes I'd like to try.

Use one EtherRegen and connect the B port to the main network and the two speakers to the A side. Nothing else on the A side
Use two EtherRegens and connect both from A side to the main network. One B port to each speaker.
Use two EtherRegens and connect the A sides on the two together with a separate cable. A single cable from an A port on one of the EtherRegens to the main network. One B port to each speaker.
Johnnydev is using the first option and I will try it later.  As for a second EtherREGEN, I will have to borrow one if I can. I have my doubts on how much more it can improve things.


RE: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - Antoine - 18-Dec-2019

@Snoopy8 Nice review! Your findings very much resemble mine even though your system and setup is completely different than mine. In fact I even think, with everything I’ve read thus far, these results seem to be quite ‘universal’. Enjoy! Smile


RE: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - Snoopy8 - 18-Dec-2019

(18-Dec-2019, 11:48)Antoine Wrote: @Snoopy8 Nice review! Your findings very much resemble mine even though your system and setup is completely different than mine. In fact I even think, with everything I’ve read thus far, these results seem to be quite ‘universal’. Enjoy! Smile
Thank you.  I think the EtherREGEN is "universal" in improving things but can vary significantly in what it improves.  I lent my unit to someone using a Vitus Integrated setup and he did get improvement but a lot less than what I got.

For example, I got a big jump with the darker background.  I was using only a DC Blocker because I found that a power conditioner slowed the rhythm and beat of the music.  My friend likes his power conditioner and did not gain as much in that aspect.