Devialet Chat
"Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - Printable Version

+- Devialet Chat (https://devialetchat.com)
+-- Forum: Devialet Chat (https://devialetchat.com/Forum-Devialet-Chat)
+--- Forum: Tweaker's Corner (https://devialetchat.com/Forum-Tweaker-s-Corner)
+--- Thread: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation (/Thread-Audiophile-Grade-Ethernet-Switches-The-new-generation)



RE: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - Johnnydev - 30-Dec-2019

+ 1

@Snoopy8

what will you do with the DOS2 upgrade now?

Various people report a sound quality improvement.

With us with the ER, phantoms connected with ethernet and no more Dialog should certainly give an improvement of the SQ?

I would like to upgrade, but I want to know in advance if I can stream upnp from my IPad pro 1 TB where my music library is on.
I also want to be able to stream (upnp) the best quality with internet radio and qobuz.

Who can help me how this could be done so that I can upgrade to DOS2 with a good feeling?


RE: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - thumb5 - 30-Dec-2019

(30-Dec-2019, 11:15)Snoopy8 Wrote: ...
Some observations on many of the earlier posts, going back many, many pages.

There has been far too many debates (more like arguments!) started by people who have never tried the product, intent on putting down and dismissing people who have positive experiences.  To me, it is their loss for not willing to try something which has good potential for improving the audio setup.  I am enjoying my music more than ever because of the EtherREGEN.

Since I guess that your complaint is (at least in part) directed to me, please allow me to reply.  There's more I could say but I'll keep it brief and to the point.

The thread title is "Audiophile Grade Ethernet Switches - The new generation", which I believe admits quite a wide range of discussion including whether or not such things actually have any effect on an audio signal passing through them.

I don't recall any posts in this thread putting anyone down or dismissing their positive listening experiences, except to the extent that they claim to prove that the ER has any objective effect.

You seem to be asking for a thread where only those who have listened to the EtherREGEN are allowed to have any opinion or make comment about it  As I'm sure you know, such threads exist elsewhere.

For what it's worth, one reason I value and enjoy Devialet Chat is that is is possible to have an interesting and, I think, worthwhile discussion with people whose views (opinions, prejudices, call them what you will) are different from mine, without it descending into personal insult.  To remove the possibility of differing opinions would make the forum a rather anodyne, uninteresting place to visit.

I am (genuinely) happy to hear that you enjoy the ER and of course respect your right to express that; please would you also respect the right of those who choose not to follow the same path to still have something worthwhile to say.


RE: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - K4680 - 30-Dec-2019

(30-Dec-2019, 15:46)thumb5 Wrote:
(30-Dec-2019, 11:15)Snoopy8 Wrote: ...
Some observations on many of the earlier posts, going back many, many pages.

There has been far too many debates (more like arguments!) started by people who have never tried the product, intent on putting down and dismissing people who have positive experiences.  To me, it is their loss for not willing to try something which has good potential for improving the audio setup.  I am enjoying my music more than ever because of the EtherREGEN.

Since I guess that your complaint is (at least in part) directed to me, please allow me to reply.  There's more I could say but I'll keep it brief and to the point.

The thread title is "Audiophile Grade Ethernet Switches - The new generation", which I believe admits quite a wide range of discussion including whether or not such things actually have any effect on an audio signal passing through them.

I don't recall any posts in this thread putting anyone down or dismissing their positive listening experiences, except to the extent that they claim to prove that the ER has any objective effect.

You seem to be asking for a thread where only those who have listened to the EtherREGEN are allowed to have any opinion or make comment about it  As I'm sure you know, such threads exist elsewhere.

For what it's worth, one reason I value and enjoy Devialet Chat is that is is possible to have an interesting and, I think, worthwhile discussion with people whose views (opinions, prejudices, call them what you will) are different from mine, without it descending into personal insult.  To remove the possibility of differing opinions would make the forum a rather anodyne, uninteresting place to visit.

I am (genuinely) happy to hear that you enjoy the ER and of course respect your right to express that; please would you also respect the right of those who choose not to follow the same path to still have something worthwhile to say.

@thumb5, thumbs up!! Wink


RE: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - Johnnydev - 30-Dec-2019

(30-Dec-2019, 16:33)K4680 Wrote:
(30-Dec-2019, 15:46)thumb5 Wrote:
(30-Dec-2019, 11:15)Snoopy8 Wrote: ...
Some observations on many of the earlier posts, going back many, many pages.

There has been far too many debates (more like arguments!) started by people who have never tried the product, intent on putting down and dismissing people who have positive experiences.  To me, it is their loss for not willing to try something which has good potential for improving the audio setup.  I am enjoying my music more than ever because of the EtherREGEN.

Since I guess that your complaint is (at least in part) directed to me, please allow me to reply.  There's more I could say but I'll keep it brief and to the point.

The thread title is "Audiophile Grade Ethernet Switches - The new generation", which I believe admits quite a wide range of discussion including whether or not such things actually have any effect on an audio signal passing through them.

I don't recall any posts in this thread putting anyone down or dismissing their positive listening experiences, except to the extent that they claim to prove that the ER has any objective effect.

You seem to be asking for a thread where only those who have listened to the EtherREGEN are allowed to have any opinion or make comment about it  As I'm sure you know, such threads exist elsewhere.

For what it's worth, one reason I value and enjoy Devialet Chat is that is is possible to have an interesting and, I think, worthwhile discussion with people whose views (opinions, prejudices, call them what you will) are different from mine, without it descending into personal insult.  To remove the possibility of differing opinions would make the forum a rather anodyne, uninteresting place to visit.

I am (genuinely) happy to hear that you enjoy the ER and of course respect your right to express that; please would you also respect the right of those who choose not to follow the same path to still have something worthwhile to say.

@thumb5, thumbs up!! Wink

how can you judge / condemn without having listened to the ER?  Angel


RE: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - thumb5 - 30-Dec-2019

(30-Dec-2019, 18:56)Johnnydev Wrote: ...
how can you judge / condemn without having listened to the ER?  Angel

As far as I'm aware, I'm neither judging nor condemning, if you're referring to what other people have reported hearing -- that's entirely their business and doesn't necessarily have any bearing on what I personally might hear.  Different systems, different rooms, different ears, different brains, etc.  That said, it seems reasonable to express some scepticism about the ER's objective behaviour, based on what I have read about its design and intended purpose -- including what UpTone themselves say (and don't say).  By the way, as I posted a while back, I have not ruled out trying one at some point.


RE: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - David A - 30-Dec-2019

(30-Dec-2019, 11:15)Snoopy8 Wrote: I did try the NAS and NUC on the EtherREGEN, but it did not make a discernible difference.  The Orbi is part of my home mesh network and does not have to be in the music loop. Yes, it is used for control of NUC, but also used by everyone for everything else.

Thanks for that info. I realise that the Orbi is part of your home network and, as such, can also be used by others for other things. I also use an Orbi network but my setup is closer to what I was suggesting than to your first diagram. I use a Cisco switch in my listening room to connect both my Roon Nucleus+ server which has a 4 TB internal SSD for music storage and my 140 Pro to my Orbi hub in another room. When I receive my EtherREGEN next month I'll use it to replace the Cisco switch with the connections to my Nucleus+ and to the Orbii hub being made to the A side and the connection to the 140 Pro being made to the B side.


RE: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - baconbrain - 30-Dec-2019

(30-Dec-2019, 19:34)thumb5 Wrote: As far as I'm aware, I'm neither judging nor condemning, if you're referring to what other people have reported hearing -- that's entirely their business and doesn't necessarily have any bearing on what I personally might hear.  Different systems, different rooms, different ears, different brains, etc.  That said, it seems reasonable to express some scepticism about the ER's objective behaviour, based on what I have read about its design and intended purpose -- including what UpTone themselves say (and don't say).  By the way, as I posted a while back, I have not ruled out trying one at some point.

As mentioned previously, I share your thoughts.

Being also one of the more critical voices in this thread, my skepticism is purely limited to UpTone's lack of supporting evidence to reinforce THEIR claim of what the product is supposed to improve / reduce.

Many (imo respected) members of this forum have expressed positive experiences with the product and I have no reason to doubt / question such. Pleasure cannot always be explained through science...


RE: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - Snoopy8 - 30-Dec-2019

(30-Dec-2019, 20:27)David A Wrote: Thanks for that info. I realise that the Orbi is part of your home network and, as such, can also be used by others for other things. I also use an Orbi network but my setup is closer to what I was suggesting than to your first diagram. I use a Cisco switch in my listening room to connect both my Roon Nucleus+ server which has a 4 TB internal SSD for music storage and my 140 Pro to my Orbi hub in another room. When I receive my EtherREGEN next month I'll use it to replace the Cisco switch with the connections to my Nucleus+ and to the Orbii hub being made to the A side and the connection to the 140 Pro being made to the B side.
Looking forward to hearing your experience.


RE: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - David A - 31-Dec-2019

(30-Dec-2019, 20:43)baconbrain Wrote: As mentioned previously, I share your thoughts.

Being also one of the more critical voices in this thread, my skepticism is purely limited to UpTone's lack of supporting evidence to reinforce THEIR claim of what the product is supposed to improve / reduce.

Many (imo respected) members of this forum have expressed positive experiences with the product and I have no reason to doubt / question such. Pleasure cannot always be explained through science...

I have no problem with your scepticism and I would like to see Uptone provide some form of supporting evidence for several reasons, one of which is that if they provided evidence then we'd have a lot clearer idea of what and how to conduct tests to confirm or dismiss their claims.

I just wish that the scepticism that is directed towards Uptone was also directed towards the ASR review and measurements. Any scientist will tell you that you cannot prove that there is no difference between 2 things by simply running tests that fail to show a difference but that's what ASR is claiming to have done. For those with short memories, a classic example of the risks inherent in doing that can be found back in the early 70's when some people were claiming to be able to hear a difference between amplifiers which delivered the same THD measurements on test and others claimed that there could be no audible difference if there was no measured difference. The problem was that the tests were all measuring the wrong thing, they were measuring THD as a percentage of the signal and what needed to be measured was the levels of each harmonic in the distortion. 2 amplifiers with the same measured percentage THD could have quite different levels of each harmonic in the distortion pattern and the differences in the distortion pattern are audible. What ASR has given us is comparisons of a couple of measurements of 2 switches, the EtherRegen and an unnamed switch. We have no idea whether there are measurable differences if other tests are used and we also have no idea whether, if the right tests were used, all switches would measurer similarly. Perhaps another switch would have produced different results to the unnamed switch. We have no way of knowing. The simple fact is that at present we have no idea whether the ASR tests were (a) the right tests to reveal any differences and some hard data from Uptone would help a lot on that point and (b) whether the switch the EtherREGEN was compared to actually has similar performance to the EtherREGEN and whether it is possible that some/many other switches would deliver different results on the tests which were conducted. I'm willing to accept ASR's results as honestly and accurate ly reporting what was measured but those results as they stand are incapable of actually establishing that the EtherREGEN doesn't do what Uptone claim.

What I think would give us reasonably compelling evidence that Uptone's claims are unfounded would be for Uptone to provide measurements which they claim show a difference, along with details of how those measurements were made and why those measurements are the relevant measurements and for several testers to replicate the Uptone test procedure and fail to find the differences that Uptone report, along with the results of a couple of rigorously designed and conducted listening tests which failed to show that listeners can reliably distinguish between the EtherREGEN and several other common ethernet switches.  Those listening tests are not going to be easy to design and conduct, should have a reasonable number of subects, and would take quite a bit of time to conduct. I would love to see test results from Uptone that others could attempt to replicate because that's a key part of the scientific method when it comes to proving things, and I would equally love to see the results of some genuinely professional quality listening tests. So far we have neither and it doesn't matter whether you believe Uptone or ASR, anyone who believes the other can validly throw the same criticisms at your position as you can throw at theirs. Currently no side has an advantage in this argument when it comes to providing compelling proof of their particular claims.

As I've said before, I have an EtherREGEN on order and should be getting it next month so I "have skin in the game" as the saying goes. I think people should not accept Uptone's claims uncritically but on the other hand they should also not accept ASR's tests and claims uncritically. There is currently no evidence for or against Uptone's cllaims that should not be treated with an equal degree of scepticism.


RE: "Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation - thumb5 - 31-Dec-2019

@David A - your previous post is a very fair summary, I think. For the record, I'm not a huge fan of the way ASR carried out and reported their test either. I suspect we are never going to see what we both might like from UpTone; since ER is apparently selling as fast as they can make it, there is little benefit and quite a bit of risk to them in publishing data that would enable anyone to verify or falsify their claims.