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+--- Thread: Last minute Summer Devialet Event at OAC with Mathieu Pernot! 12 July 2018 (/Thread-Last-minute-Summer-Devialet-Event-at-OAC-with-Mathieu-Pernot-12-July-2018)
RE: Last minute Summer Devialet Event at OAC with Mathieu Pernot! 12 July 2018 - petrik - 13-Jul-2018
(13-Jul-2018, 12:43)thumb5 Wrote: The picture I got was that it was mainly a business decision that Devialet don't want to get into room analysis, rather than a technical limitation of the Expert DSP (not being able to handle room correction). That said, I do feel this is a bit of a half-hearted answer: in principle I'd have thought Devialet could partner with any of several well-known third parties that specialise in room analysis, and work out a way to import the room-specific correction algorithm -- convolution, filters, whatever -- into the Expert DSP engine. Of course it all comes down to resources, priorities, and whether there would be "any money in it" (to put it crudely).
That's good to know. We don't necessarily even need Devialet to do the room analysis. There are many very fine solutions for that. We just need some way to run the full range convolution / third party solutions inside our Devialets. I would be willing to pay a lot of money just to get this single feature. The current PEQ capability inside the Devialet is better than nothing, but it isn't as flexible as we would like, and it isn't nearly as good as the convolution. I'm not sure about SQ - that does it sound the same/better/worse than Roon's PEQ - perhaps a new thread could be started on this?
RE: Last minute Summer Devialet Event at OAC with Mathieu Pernot! 12 July 2018 - Confused - 13-Jul-2018
I have remembered something else, but this is more a bit of trivia rather than hard technical data.
I was talking to Mathieu and we were both looking around the shop at the various products on display. We happened to be looking at a selection of amps, and were talking about the new Acoustic Research REF160's and some big Musical Fidelity amps. I commented on the REF160's, because they look surprising big in the flesh, huge in fact.
Mathieu made a comment that they thought the Expert range would sell better in the US if it was bigger, apparently a lot of potential US customers somehow cannot accept that the tiny slim Devialet's can be pushing out 1000w RMS, or maybe they just prefer "big". Mathieu said something along the lines of "it might have sold better if we had just put it into a much bigger case."
There was also a quip regarding the big Musical Fidelity amp that was on display, along the lines of amplifiers being very much like football teams, that is the English ones are pretty decent, but the French ones offer just that little bit more.....
RE: Last minute Summer Devialet Event at OAC with Mathieu Pernot! 12 July 2018 - ogs - 13-Jul-2018
I would never have the large, and for me ugly McIntosh amps or similar in my living room, even if the room was huge. I know quite a few people who wouldn't own anything but... Taste is obviously different and many believe it is impossible to have 'big' power from a small box. I think Devialet owners know this is not the case. A mono block pair of McIntosh is of course easier to 'show off' than a shiny bathroom scale or two..
RE: Last minute Summer Devialet Event at OAC with Mathieu Pernot! 12 July 2018 - Hifi_swlon - 13-Jul-2018
(13-Jul-2018, 12:48)Confused Wrote: Also, there have been a few posts about room correction. Mathieu did make one comment about RC that has not been mentioned, it was something along the lines of if Devialet were to do room correction it would be a complete system. So it looks to me that there is some concern about the wide variety of ways that convolutions could be supplied, but a closed all Devialet system might work. I am not an expert on the inner working of RC, but combined with ADH I can see some issued with how headroom is dealt with, how changes in sample rates are dealt with, how RC interacts with SAM, this kind of thing. As stated by Ian earlier, it is clear that RC is not on the short term road map, but I came away with the impression that a complete Devialet RC system might be a possibility in the future. But don't hold your breath, as the saying goes....
That's really interesting, and I think shows how out of touch Devialet are with RC. OK, so an 'all in' solution would be fantastic, but the reality is its far too complex a task for anyone let alone Devialet. To do it right requires complex GUI/UX work, and lots of technology and understanding of the science. IMO only Dirac have nailed making it user friendly, so integrating that would probably be their only hope for a full solution, and one I'd happily embrace (there may be better out there, but at the end of the day something's better than nothing, and Dirac's a pretty good something).
There's a reason Roon etc have gone for a 'simpler' approach of convolution engine only:
-Its just established maths. There are even free codebases out there, although probably a subject for debate about SQ among the various implementations. I'm happy with the Roon one.
-It has minimal requirements for the user GUI side. All you need is the ability to load a convolution filter (or set of files) from disk, a headroom value to be set, and a clipping indicator. And a way to toggle between filters and enable/disable.
And that's a working system.
I believe they can, and should, implement this on the CI and, that it's far simpler than they make out.
I dont think they should even consider the bigger picture version. It would be lovely and ideal, but it also means it will never happen. They are the least likely company to pull off such a thing, and I don't think they need to. Anyone considering room correction and convolution is probably going to be 'happy' to get their hands dirty and do it via loaded filters. That is a completely workable stage one and would, i think, keep most of their customers that want RC very happy.
If you think about it, its probably more complex to configure the Devialet, write it to an SD card, and load it into the D, than it would be to old a convolution filter. i.e. users with enough technical knowledge to adjust anything on their Devialet could load a convolution filter.
(13-Jul-2018, 13:29)Confused Wrote: Mathieu made a comment that they thought the Expert range would sell better in the US if it was bigger, apparently a lot of potential US customers somehow cannot accept that the tiny slim Devialet's can be pushing out 1000w RMS, or maybe they just prefer "big". Mathieu said something along the lines of "it might have sold better if we had just put it into a much bigger case."
They should do exactly that if they think it would sell better in the US. Make a 2000 Pro and put it in a massive chrome cube. They could still make it beautiful.
RE: Last minute Summer Devialet Event at OAC with Mathieu Pernot! 12 July 2018 - thumb5 - 13-Jul-2018
(13-Jul-2018, 14:08)Hifi_swlon Wrote: ...
I believe they can, and should, implement this on the CI and, that it's far simpler than they make out.
...
I agree completely with everything you said, except that I'd have thought it needs to be done by the DSP rather than the CI. Otherwise I worry that it would only work for the streaming sources where data passes through the CI CPU, and not for what Devialet referred to as the "legacy" sources (S/P-DIF, USB, analog). That's semi-educated guesswork until the white paper materialises, though.
RE: Last minute Summer Devialet Event at OAC with Mathieu Pernot! 12 July 2018 - Hifi_swlon - 13-Jul-2018
Interesting, I had actually thought from some of their comments in the infinity logs, that the DSP on the CI board could be used generally, rather than just for CI inputs - i.e. that there would be traffic into and out of the board from all inputs. I've perhaps completely misread that though.
That said, if Room Correction were limited to streamed/USB, I'd be happy with that compromise - at least to start. It would be better than now where ONLY Roon has Room correction. Of course, to be truly useful they'd add a PEQ too. Again, Roon have shown that its not too hard - they implemented it in well less than a year.
RE: Last minute Summer Devialet Event at OAC with Mathieu Pernot! 12 July 2018 - mdconnelly - 13-Jul-2018
Kudos to Devialet for holding this event and for being so open and upfront. And a huge thanks to all who attended and reported here. It's great to once again feel highly optimistic about my Expert Pros! I, too, would love to see RC via my Expert Pros but I also have to be realistic. I would agree that if there was sufficient interest, they should strive to partner (or buy) a company that already has strong experience in this.
One thing I haven't heard much about in a while is the status of their SAM program. I, unfortunately, own a pair of speakers that have not been SAMed and was just wondering where Devialet stands in terms of expanding that. I have heard the use of SAM on a couple different pairs of speakers and the results were mixed - likely more a result of different rooms than the speakers themselves.
RE: Last minute Summer Devialet Event at OAC with Mathieu Pernot! 12 July 2018 - Confused - 13-Jul-2018
(13-Jul-2018, 14:08)Hifi_swlon Wrote:(13-Jul-2018, 12:48)Confused Wrote: Also, there have been a few posts about room correction. Mathieu did make one comment about RC that has not been mentioned, it was something along the lines of if Devialet were to do room correction it would be a complete system. So it looks to me that there is some concern about the wide variety of ways that convolutions could be supplied, but a closed all Devialet system might work. I am not an expert on the inner working of RC, but combined with ADH I can see some issued with how headroom is dealt with, how changes in sample rates are dealt with, how RC interacts with SAM, this kind of thing. As stated by Ian earlier, it is clear that RC is not on the short term road map, but I came away with the impression that a complete Devialet RC system might be a possibility in the future. But don't hold your breath, as the saying goes....
That's really interesting, and I think shows how out of touch Devialet are with RC. OK, so an 'all in' solution would be fantastic, but the reality is its far too complex a task for anyone let alone Devialet. To do it right requires complex GUI/UX work, and lots of technology and understanding of the science. IMO only Dirac have nailed making it user friendly, so integrating that would probably be their only hope for a full solution, and one I'd happily embrace (there may be better out there, but at the end of the day something's better than nothing, and Dirac's a pretty good something).
That's a little harsh I think. Certainly they did not out sound of touch on the subject. Most of what I wrote above is my interpretation of a very minor comment, so it is probably just me that is a bit clueless!
RE: Last minute Summer Devialet Event at OAC with Mathieu Pernot! 12 July 2018 - Confused - 13-Jul-2018
(13-Jul-2018, 15:11)Hifi_swlon Wrote: Again, Roon have shown that its not too hard - they implemented it in well less than a year.
Yes, Roon may have implemented in less that a year, but they are software specialists and they had decided to prioritise this work.
Look at it a different way, I think Roon is hopeless because they have not implemented individual track ratings. Furthermore, there have been a couple of threads and many posts on the Roon forum regarding individual track ratings and nobody from Roon has even bothered to comment on the subject, not one single post, Roon's communication is dreadful.
The reality is Roon have chosen to focus on things other than individual track ratings. In exactly the same way, Devialet are not focusing on Room correction because they have other priorities and do not have unlimited recourses. It is a bit daft comparing Roon and Devialet anyway, one designs and manufactures hardware, the other software. After all, we haven't seen Roon manufacture anything like ADH have we? Very different companies.
In an ideal world, Roon and Devialet would collaborate. Imagine, Devialet could make superb amplifiers and all they would have to do is make them Roon ready, you could then enjoy the superb Devialet sound quality together with all the splendid software features of Roon, including convolution, PEQ and all the rest of it. That truly would be the best of both worlds. And yes, we have this now, so it's not so terrible is it? (unless you want to play vinyl, or connect your Dev to the telly or something
)The simple fact is, room correction is not Devialet's priority at the moment, and they have made this clear. It might be your priority, but then again, many other customers would not be remotely bothered about it. In exactly the same way, Roon annoys the hell out of me for not including something so incredibly simple as individual track ratings, they then annoy me further by not responding with one single post on the topic on their own forum. Roon = Rubbish! It's so simple!! iTunes and JRiver can do it, even the rubbish Media Monkey can do it. Roon can't even be bothered to communicate on the subject. Roon can't even build amplifiers! That said, individual track ratings is my priority, others share this view, but I am sure most Roon users could not care less about it.
So it depends on how you look at it. Me, I am actually running Roon with room correction together Devialet amp, as a total system it is incredibly powerful, very impressive. Roon doing what they do best, Devialet doing what they do best, and it all works together with perfect synergy.
Sometimes it is best to enjoy what is good and works now, rather than getting too hooked up on one companies priorities not being 100% aligned with your own.
(It's been a tough week, I am in the mood for a rant!
)
RE: Last minute Summer Devialet Event at OAC with Mathieu Pernot! 12 July 2018 - Hifi_swlon - 13-Jul-2018
Let’s agree to disagree