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Devialet 440 Pro CI not sounding great... - Printable Version

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Devialet 440 Pro CI not sounding great... - JimSmith - 10-Dec-2018

How do we judge sound quality of our Devialet equipment? To compare reproduced sound in our living room to a real live event is a hopeless task even for a hi-fi setups costing 6 figures and above. Hence we can only do comparisons between different hifi setups, or rely on hifi magazine reviews.  

Which now brings me to the point. When I upgraded to a Devialet 440 Pro I had a very modest setup previous to that. Hence I was overjoyed by what I heard when listening to the Devialet. But that was more than a year ago, since then I have become accustomed to the sound. Now recently I had a chance to listen to a system with a R2R DAC in it, and it has been a revelation as to how analogue/organic digital can sound through a R2R DAC. All the metallic glare that you typically find on digital just disappeared, instrument sound so natural, and most of all 16/44 sounds really good. 

Absolutely no listening fatigue usually associated with digital. But here is the problem this particular R2R DAC had even more resolving abilities than my 440 Pro CI. The price difference between the two was maybe $3K, the R2R setup being more expensive. However those $3K brought a lot to the table. So much so that I started to question if something was wrong with my Devialet and how it just did not resolve the complex classical pieces. This was a side by side comparison in my living room with my own speakers a pair of Sonus Faber Olympica 1.

With the R2R setup I could here the singer inhaling a breath of air before beginning a passage, sounded as if the artist was in the room. Instruments hung in the air not stuck to the wall behind the speakers but right in the middle of the speakers. The cymbals were floating in the air. 

Maybe I have not been doing critical listening to my Devialet 440 Pro but all the above is missing. The imaging I am getting from the Devialet is good but no instruments floating in-between the speakers, everything is behind the speakers. 

What am I missing??


RE: Devialet 440 Pro CI not sounding great... - thumb5 - 10-Dec-2018

Let's leave aside the price comparison of the R2R DAC to (presumably) your 440 for a while.  What I read in(to) your post was that you were listening to a completely different system which happened to include the R2R DAC, possibly in a completely different environment, and perhaps in a situation where you were pre-disposed to hear something special.

My point is that there is probably a lot more going on than just what DAC was in use - a lot of it being in your brain (not that I'm discounting that, it's a valid subjective experience).  Just hearing something different and new can often sound better than the familiar, at least initially, even more so if you have a conscious or sub-conscious expectation that it will be special.

Can you tell us more about the complete system that you listened to, and what environment was it in?  For example, had the room been treated carefully, and how had the system been set up?


RE: Devialet 440 Pro CI not sounding great... - JimSmith - 10-Dec-2018

@thumb5 The environment is my living room for both the hifi setups, and I purposely left out the equipment brands as to not have anyone be disposed to equipment bias. I agree with you that our brains can trick us with expectation bias as well as something that sounds different might initially be perceived as better. Therefore the need for A/B/X is a must.

But I have listened to this Power/Pre combination with a different "cheaper" DAC before in my living room on my speakers and that combination could not compete with the Devialet when it came to unraveling complex musical passages. However this changed with the substitution of the R2R DAC. I was surprised or rather taken aback as to how the Power/Pre leapfrogged the Devialet with the above change.

Till that time I had been quiet satisfied with how complex classical music of the type "Lisa Batiashvili- Daniel Barenboim: Tchaikovsky, Sibelius: Violin Concertos" sounded on the Devialet.

As a last note the room is treated with a mixture of absorption and diffusion panels.


RE: Devialet 440 Pro CI not sounding great... - thumb5 - 10-Dec-2018

Ah, now I see how that has set the cat amongst the pigeons a bit! Thanks for clarifying.

ETA: it would be an interesting experiment to see whether you get the same sound quality if you use the R2R DAC into an analogue input on the Devialet. Maybe there is some euphonic colouration in the DAC that would be preserved in transit through the Devialet (or, of course, maybe not)?


RE: Devialet 440 Pro CI not sounding great... - Amelot75 - 10-Dec-2018

@thumb5 agreed with you. R2R Dac to the analog input of the D440 is a must test.
I did with the Lumin and I skipped the upgrade program. Clearly Devialet Dac integrated is not their best feature .
Please test and send your feedback


RE: Devialet 440 Pro CI not sounding great... - Wdw - 10-Dec-2018

(10-Dec-2018, 21:51)Amelot75 Wrote: @thumb5 agreed with you. R2R Dac to the analog input of the D440 is a must test.
I did with the Lumin and I skipped the upgrade program. Clearly Devialet Dac integrated is not their best feature .
Please test and send your feedback

Isn't it the case that all inputs into the Devialet are digitized before sending to the amplifier?  If so, how would this test of using the analogue inputs tell us much?  

@JimSmith ... would be interesting in hearing which R2R DAC you tested with.

Cheers


RE: Devialet 440 Pro CI not sounding great... - thumb5 - 10-Dec-2018

(10-Dec-2018, 22:21)Wdw Wrote: ...
Isn't it the case that all inputs into the Devialet are digitized before sending to the amplifier?  If so, how would this test of using the analogue inputs tell us much?  
...

Yes, the Devialet digitises all analog inputs. But one might expect that the Devialet ADC and DAC are more transparent than the R-2R DAC @JimSmith mentioned, in which case any colouration the R-2R DAC provides should be preserved through the Devialet. If so, that could confirm that what @JimSmith likes is indeed the sound of this DAC. If not, maybe it's more to do with the other amplifier.


RE: Devialet 440 Pro CI not sounding great... - Pim - 10-Dec-2018

Silly as it may sound, there's always the possibility that the R2R DAC and amp combo is just better than the Devialet 440 Pro.

@JimSmith , I don't see any reason for not mentioning the brand / type of the other equipment. After all, where all here to learn.

I also would be keen to read about the R2R DAC through the 440 but reading Jim's description (Hearing more into the recording) I would be surprised if it will sound a s good as the R2R DAC setup.


RE: Devialet 440 Pro CI not sounding great... - NickB - 10-Dec-2018

So sell the Devialet and buy this other system if that's what floats your boat.


RE: Devialet 440 Pro CI not sounding great... - JimSmith - 10-Dec-2018

Thank you all for the input. Interesting to see a varied response, not yet ready to concede defeat on the Devialet front. Will try the analogue out from the R2R and feed it to the Devialet.

@NickB I am not here to disparage Devialet owners, I am an owner myself, and I kind of want Devialet to outperform the other setup.

@Pim You are right it could be that the R2R combo is just better, which would be a shame really as I always held Devialet SQ with the highest regard. And it would also mean parting ways with it and moving on. My only one concern is that the firmware is not yet fully optimised and before making any buying/selling decision I should wait for the next release. After having read this forum I think we all can agree that firmware upgrades do alter the sound characteristics of the Dev.

@thumb5 I don't think what I am hearing is coloration. What I am hearing though is more information within the musical passages, a stretching if you may of the soundstage fabric revealing more instruments within the ensemble. Yes when the music is not complex the instruments do sound more fuller and rounder which could be attributed to the power amplifier.

@Wdw the R2R DAC is the Aqua La Scala MKII Optologic.