(13-Jun-2019, 16:26)audio_engr Wrote:

(12-Jun-2019, 19:11)JohnnySix Wrote: I have read that Devialets behave like classic amps with regard to Ground vs -15v issue. I once had a Rotel Class D that frightened the life out of me when I connected a Rel High Level!

On the subject of Hum, I’ve found that the 2nd hand T7i I got from Nintronics has a mild hum, but my original T7i has none.

PHASE: Having spent weeks measuring the effect of Devialet delay values on sub integration using wavelet spectrograms, I’d beware the suggestion to turn on high pass filter for the mains. It can introduce a significant phase shift that could upset a professional's installation. 
But provided you can measure and compensate for it, it CAN reduce over-thick bass in the crossover region.

Thanks for your response & recommendations. 

Anyway, so long possible, I'd go with High-Level setup of the RELs. REL G1 MK II designer John Hunter tells me its much more dynamic and much superior integration with the Main speakers than using Low-level. I am only concerned that it seems the Black (ground) wire also needs to be connected in this case with Devialets. Just hope it doesn't mess up the Amps or my main speakers ...

(06-Jun-2019, 23:57)audio_engr Wrote:

(17-May-2019, 17:17)Laura Wrote: It’s been a few weeks since I posted on this thread and said that I would report back after the REL open day I attended. 

The open day was at Nintronics in Welwyn Garden City with Rob from REL present to do the demonstrations. They had two REL No.25 subwoofers paired with Focal Maestro Utopia Evo III speakers for the Hifi demo and not surprisingly it sounded great. Even with these £45K speakers the subs added detail to the music across the whole frequency range plus the expected low end extension. The effect was subtle but instantly noticeable with sub on / off listening.

With special trade in deals to be had on the day it was easy to get carried away. I went there with the intention of possibly buying one sub but after hearing them in action I wanted the stereo pair. The No.25 is massive and I’d struggle to fit one beside my speakers let alone two, not to mention the fact that they cost £6.5K each so after a lot of procrastination I opted for two of the reference line G1 Mk2 which I reckoned I could just about fit in. So I traded in an old pair of Castle speakers and the deal was done. Over the next few days I started to have purchase regret and asked myself what the hell I was doing? But I decided to hold on and see if these would make much difference to my my system. 

About a week later Danny from Nintronics and Rob from REL turned up at my house to do the install. Rob recommended using the pre-outs on the back of the Devialets so I did the configuration for this but at first we couldn’t get it working. After a bit of head scratching it turned out that if you program the Tone button on the Devialet remote control for Sub On/Off it doesn’t work properly and we were getting odd results like one sub would work and the other would not. After changing this setting to Pre On/Off instead the second sub burst into life. I found this a bit odd and was also surprised at how little ‘help’ information in the configurator and on the Devialet website there seems to be for setting up subs, particularly if you are configuring a dual setup. Once we had solved this technical issue I left it up to the REL expert to position the subs for me and set the phase, crossovers, and levels. I was surprised how little adjustment was needed in the positioning to make a huge difference to the sound in the listening position. A couple of centimetres at a time made all the difference. As my system is now dual purpose Hifi and Home Theatre we tested the configuration in both modes and it seems that Rob got it just right. The installation was supposed to take about an hour but in reality it took more like 4 until Rob was happy with the setup and I was too. 

That evening I decided to give them the proper Hifi test to see if it had all been worth the expense and hassle and what I experienced was very surprising. The whole musical experience was transformed throughout the entire frequency range, the soundstage was increased massively around the whole room with much better imaging. Instruments and voices were all much more lifelike, warmer, and there was detail on the recordings that I had never heard before! It is hard to put into words how much better these subs make the entire experience and can only say of all the Hifi gear I’ve bought over the last 20 years nothing has had such a profound effect on my system as adding these 2 subwoofers. Needless to say the purchase regret has vanished. I have no idea how these can affect mid and high end sounds but they do and my system now sounds amazing and puts a big grin on my face every time I listen to it!

Today, I was at the REL dealer for over 5 hours. At first, I heard the No.25 followed by the S-series 212/SE and finally the G1 MK II. The No. 25 is outstanding but waaayy too big for my very difficult 'square 18-Ft x 18-Ft dedicated room'. And, I wasn't impressed with the 212/SE but the G1 MKII completely floored me. It was devastatingly good and was mated to Wilson Sasha DAWs that I auditioned. 


I heard classical, organ, opera, smooth jazz, 60's, 70's & 80's rock and was awestruck at what a pair of G1 MKIIs were doing to the overall sonic experience. They sell in the US for $ 5,500 each, meaning $ 11,000 + taxes for a pair. It is indeed a lot of money but I also realise that this would be the single 'massive upgrade' I can do to my existing system and can also sell off the 2nd 440-Pro set and revert to bi-wiring from bi-amping. Hmm! I will have to start saving up of this now ... a pair of G1 MKII when setup right using the High Level input of the Devialet is soooo addictive !!   

(18-Jun-2019, 05:22)PeppaPig Wrote:

(06-Jun-2019, 23:57)audio_engr Wrote:

(17-May-2019, 17:17)Laura Wrote: It’s been a few weeks since I posted on this thread and said that I would report back after the REL open day I attended. 

The open day was at Nintronics in Welwyn Garden City with Rob from REL present to do the demonstrations. They had two REL No.25 subwoofers paired with Focal Maestro Utopia Evo III speakers for the Hifi demo and not surprisingly it sounded great. Even with these £45K speakers the subs added detail to the music across the whole frequency range plus the expected low end extension. The effect was subtle but instantly noticeable with sub on / off listening.

With special trade in deals to be had on the day it was easy to get carried away. I went there with the intention of possibly buying one sub but after hearing them in action I wanted the stereo pair. The No.25 is massive and I’d struggle to fit one beside my speakers let alone two, not to mention the fact that they cost £6.5K each so after a lot of procrastination I opted for two of the reference line G1 Mk2 which I reckoned I could just about fit in. So I traded in an old pair of Castle speakers and the deal was done. Over the next few days I started to have purchase regret and asked myself what the hell I was doing? But I decided to hold on and see if these would make much difference to my my system. 

About a week later Danny from Nintronics and Rob from REL turned up at my house to do the install. Rob recommended using the pre-outs on the back of the Devialets so I did the configuration for this but at first we couldn’t get it working. After a bit of head scratching it turned out that if you program the Tone button on the Devialet remote control for Sub On/Off it doesn’t work properly and we were getting odd results like one sub would work and the other would not. After changing this setting to Pre On/Off instead the second sub burst into life. I found this a bit odd and was also surprised at how little ‘help’ information in the configurator and on the Devialet website there seems to be for setting up subs, particularly if you are configuring a dual setup. Once we had solved this technical issue I left it up to the REL expert to position the subs for me and set the phase, crossovers, and levels. I was surprised how little adjustment was needed in the positioning to make a huge difference to the sound in the listening position. A couple of centimetres at a time made all the difference. As my system is now dual purpose Hifi and Home Theatre we tested the configuration in both modes and it seems that Rob got it just right. The installation was supposed to take about an hour but in reality it took more like 4 until Rob was happy with the setup and I was too. 

That evening I decided to give them the proper Hifi test to see if it had all been worth the expense and hassle and what I experienced was very surprising. The whole musical experience was transformed throughout the entire frequency range, the soundstage was increased massively around the whole room with much better imaging. Instruments and voices were all much more lifelike, warmer, and there was detail on the recordings that I had never heard before! It is hard to put into words how much better these subs make the entire experience and can only say of all the Hifi gear I’ve bought over the last 20 years nothing has had such a profound effect on my system as adding these 2 subwoofers. Needless to say the purchase regret has vanished. I have no idea how these can affect mid and high end sounds but they do and my system now sounds amazing and puts a big grin on my face every time I listen to it!

Today, I was at the REL dealer for over 5 hours. At first, I heard the No.25 followed by the S-series 212/SE and finally the G1 MK II. The No. 25 is outstanding but waaayy too big for my very difficult 'square 18-Ft x 18-Ft dedicated room'. And, I wasn't impressed with the 212/SE but the G1 MKII completely floored me. It was devastatingly good and was mated to Wilson Sasha DAWs that I auditioned. 


I heard classical, organ, opera, smooth jazz, 60's, 70's & 80's rock and was awestruck at what a pair of G1 MKIIs were doing to the overall sonic experience. They sell in the US for $ 5,500 each, meaning $ 11,000 + taxes for a pair. It is indeed a lot of money but I also realise that this would be the single 'massive upgrade' I can do to my existing system and can also sell off the 2nd 440-Pro set and revert to bi-wiring from bi-amping. Hmm! I will have to start saving up of this now ... a pair of G1 MKII when setup right using the High Level input of the Devialet is soooo addictive !!   

Hi may I ask which part that 212/SE disappointed you? the 212/SE has extreme good review everywhere... can you pls share some details?

(19-Jun-2019, 04:34)audio_engr Wrote:

(18-Jun-2019, 05:22)PeppaPig Wrote:

(06-Jun-2019, 23:57)audio_engr Wrote: Today, I was at the REL dealer for over 5 hours. At first, I heard the No.25 followed by the S-series 212/SE and finally the G1 MK II. The No. 25 is outstanding but waaayy too big for my very difficult 'square 18-Ft x 18-Ft dedicated room'. And, I wasn't impressed with the 212/SE but the G1 MKII completely floored me. It was devastatingly good and was mated to Wilson Sasha DAWs that I auditioned. 


I heard classical, organ, opera, smooth jazz, 60's, 70's & 80's rock and was awestruck at what a pair of G1 MKIIs were doing to the overall sonic experience. They sell in the US for $ 5,500 each, meaning $ 11,000 + taxes for a pair. It is indeed a lot of money but I also realise that this would be the single 'massive upgrade' I can do to my existing system and can also sell off the 2nd 440-Pro set and revert to bi-wiring from bi-amping. Hmm! I will have to start saving up of this now ... a pair of G1 MKII when setup right using the High Level input of the Devialet is soooo addictive !!   

Hi may I ask which part that 212/SE disappointed you? the 212/SE has extreme good review everywhere... can you pls share some details?

The quality of the low freq from 212/SE is nowhere similar to the G1 MK-II or No.25. I was just speaking to John Hunter (Chief Designer & Owner of REL Acoustics) and these were his words when I put forth your question to him, "the 212/SE is very good with a huge capacity when it comes to quantity of bass .. meaning it can goes really very loud but for music, it cannot compete with the G1 MK-II or the No.25 as the filters are very different between those Reference series models & the 212/SE. 

Go and hear it yourself, (forget the reviews).

Also, from my chat with John, I am told the speed of low freq, the very fast filters, 70% lighter drive unit weight of the Carbon drivers in the Reference series all work in tandem towards a very seamless integration.

(20-Jun-2019, 01:57)PeppaPig Wrote: He also said G1 and No 25 is designed to be stack of 3 each side.

He told me subs that sits low will never sound good, the height factor of 212/SE contributes a lot. Which means if you go for G1 or No 25, it is designed to be stacked, you need to get at least 2 or 3 each side.

The G1 MK2 used class AB amp, 212SE used a Class D 1000Watt amp like the No 25 has, I heard other users compared G1 and 212SE and they found 212SE is much faster than the G1 MK2 due to the Class D amp.

I haven't heard the G1 or No25, but I heard the S5 Carbon, S5 SHO and 212SE. the S5 Carbon used same driver as G1, it does sounds better than S5 SHO, more output, but its no where as good as the 212/SE, can I say that carbon driver doesn't help that much as we expected?

(20-Jun-2019, 06:46)audio_engr Wrote:

(20-Jun-2019, 01:57)PeppaPig Wrote: He also said G1 and No 25 is designed to be stack of 3 each side.

He told me subs that sits low will never sound good, the height factor of 212/SE contributes a lot. Which means if you go for G1 or No 25, it is designed to be stacked, you need to get at least 2 or 3 each side.

The G1 MK2 used class AB amp, 212SE used a Class D 1000Watt amp like the No 25 has, I heard other users compared G1 and 212SE and they found 212SE is much faster than the G1 MK2 due to the Class D amp.

I haven't heard the G1 or No25, but I heard the S5 Carbon, S5 SHO and 212SE. the S5 Carbon used same driver as G1, it does sounds better than S5 SHO, more output, but its no where as good as the 212/SE, can I say that carbon driver doesn't help that much as we expected?

Stacking is for large rooms. My 18 x 18 Ft room cannot handle that. And neither can my pocket .. 

I do not agree that Subs that sit low will never sound good. And also that a sub with Class A/AB amp does not sound good vs. a sub with a Class D amp. 

You need to hear the G1 MK-II or the No.25 first. 

However, I am all 'guns for a Pair of G1 MK-II' and will be implementing this soon. And regarding the method of connecting the RELs, I will use High-Level with the Black wire affixed to the GROUND Terminal under the Phono RCAs on the Devialet. 

Once again, please try and hear the G1 or the #25 paired with high-end loudspeakers at a dealer ... you may change your opinion on them.   

(27-Jun-2019, 23:11)Dan Wrote: Question.

I have a small room - 10.5 feet x 13.5 feet (although there are three 3 1/2 foot openings into the room from other rooms).

Amp - 1000pro
Speakers - Magico S3

Am considering a sub(s). But I have very limited places to put it (them).

Am thinking about two Rel T9i, two Rel S3, or one Rel G1 mk ll.

Thoughts?

(27-Jun-2019, 23:11)Dan Wrote: Question.

I have a small room - 10.5 feet x 13.5 feet (although there are three 3 1/2 foot openings into the room from other rooms).

Amp - 1000pro
Speakers - Magico S3

Am considering a sub(s). But I have very limited places to put it (them).

Am thinking about two Rel T9i, two Rel S3, or one Rel G1 mk ll.

Thoughts?