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+--- Thread: Kef reference 1 (/Thread-Kef-reference-1)
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RE: Kef reference 1 - gitaarwerk - 07-Dec-2019
(05-Dec-2019, 23:59)WTree Wrote:(05-Dec-2019, 11:51)gitaarwerk Wrote: Update; in the end i got the dual 220 aka 440 pro. Great deal on it. Sounds amazing. A bit flat, but have to get used to it.Good choice! It makes you more future proof with speaker upgrade as well as extracting more from your current speakers.
Wish You a great time with Devialet!!
Thanks :-) definitely! It was so much more than I wanted to pay, but I'm not unhappy with my decision.
(07-Dec-2019, 04:20)Pim Wrote:(05-Dec-2019, 11:51)gitaarwerk Wrote: A bit flat, but have to get used to it.That setup should sound anything but flat. Can you elaborate on that? Or are you talking about the pizza box shape of the Experts?
Hm.. I think it's quite flat. But in comparison. It sounds balanced. So it's quite a positive thing. Exciting usually means that there are distortions, clipping and harmonics being produced. Now.. its clear, tidy, tight, fast and quiet when it needs to be. I like this. You could say it lacks character, which I would say is the exact thing you want when you pursue close reproduction.
It's definitely a scale or pizza box with built in heater :-D I hope the molten cheese and salami won't drip its fat.
RE: Kef reference 1 - Pim - 08-Dec-2019
(07-Dec-2019, 20:38)gitaarwerk Wrote:In the room my setup sits now, it's hard to get a proper sound stage but I know it's not the system; I've had it in better sounding rooms. To combat some of the nasty reflections in this room I can do a lot of acoustic work but until that's done I've found the sound stage can be improved upon by just listening at a lower volume than what I sometimes feel like. Have a go. One thing is for sure, the combo you have doesn't sound flat if the environment is good.(07-Dec-2019, 04:20)Pim Wrote:(05-Dec-2019, 11:51)gitaarwerk Wrote: A bit flat, but have to get used to it.That setup should sound anything but flat. Can you elaborate on that? Or are you talking about the pizza box shape of the Experts?
Hm.. I think it's quite flat. But in comparison. It sounds balanced. So it's quite a positive thing. Exciting usually means that there are distortions, clipping and harmonics being produced. Now.. its clear, tidy, tight, fast and quiet when it needs to be. I like this. You could say it lacks character, which I would say is the exact thing you want when you pursue close reproduction.
It's definitely a scale or pizza box with built in heater :-D I hope the molten cheese and salami won't drip its fat.
RE: Kef reference 1 - sfdude - 09-Dec-2019
I am curious how the Ref 3 sounds with a single 220. The description of the Ref 1 being flat worries me as I am considered KEF speakers. I haven’t heard issues of this with the Reference series as they are quite good both at soundstage and depth qualities. But then again, also depends on the room a lot as well.
RE: Kef reference 1 - ogs - 09-Dec-2019
I don't think 'flat' is much used as a descriptor for sound quality. For me, 'flat' would translate to 'dead', 'lifeless', 'boring'. I have never heard a Devialet Expert sounding like this. On the contrary; it sounds quite dynamic and exiting. Maybe we should ask @gitaarwerk to define a little better what he means by 'flat' to avoid any misunderstandings.
RE: Kef reference 1 - gitaarwerk - 11-Dec-2019
(09-Dec-2019, 04:49)sfdude Wrote: I am curious how the Ref 3 sounds with a single 220. The description of the Ref 1 being flat worries me as I am considered KEF speakers. I haven’t heard issues of this with the Reference series as they are quite good both at soundstage and depth qualities. But then again, also depends on the room a lot as well.
I think you should see flat as a good thing. Because SAM does introduce more stable sound stage. That is still really really good. Flat in my ears means not too excited/harmonics/distortion. It's just not something I was used to. Before this, I had a bi-amped Exposure 2010S2 set, which wasn't very powerful.
(09-Dec-2019, 09:54)ogs Wrote: I don't think 'flat' is much used as a descriptor for sound quality. For me, 'flat' would translate to 'dead', 'lifeless', 'boring'. I have never heard a Devialet Expert sounding like this. On the contrary; it sounds quite dynamic and exiting. Maybe we should ask @gitaarwerk to define a little better what he means by 'flat' to avoid any misunderstandings.
Its not lifeless, but maybe its less distortion what makes the difference sound more flat than it used to be. The exposures, looking at the noise/thd charts, tell me they are really not so great distortion. While i.e. Devialet or other brands as Accuphase E207 are. That, could exactly be the issue. If the distortion is a nice harmonic, it does add to the sound. It excites, but is not a fair reproduction. So I would say if that's my reference point, the devialet sounds "more boring" than before. Which is not fair, but it's for me the truth. And as I mentioned earlier, that's just getting used to it. In the end, I would assume devialet users, as me, are in search of great reproduction.
RE: Kef reference 1 - ogs - 11-Dec-2019
Ah, I get it. The sound has less "color" and you use the term "flat". There is less harmonic flavor to the sound than you are used to. A bit like plugging an electric guitar directly into a mixing console instead of using a proper tubed guitar amp with a suitable microphone in front of it.
Yes, the Devialet amps are very clean and neutral. I know some people coming from classic tube amps feel the sound of Devialet amps to be lean to begin with, but find it hard to go back to tubes after getting used to their Devialets.
RE: Kef reference 1 - sfdude - 11-Dec-2019
(11-Dec-2019, 09:08)gitaarwerk Wrote: I think you should see flat as a good thing. Because SAM does introduce more stable sound stage. That is still really really good. Flat in my ears means not too excited/harmonics/distortion. It's just not something I was used to. Before this, I had a bi-amped Exposure 2010S2 set, which wasn't very powerful.
Its not lifeless, but maybe its less distortion what makes the difference sound more flat than it used to be. The exposures, looking at the noise/thd charts, tell me they are really not so great distortion. While i.e. Devialet or other brands as Accuphase E207 are. That, could exactly be the issue. If the distortion is a nice harmonic, it does add to the sound. It excites, but is not a fair reproduction. So I would say if that's my reference point, the devialet sounds "more boring" than before. Which is not fair, but it's for me the truth. And as I mentioned earlier, that's just getting used to it. In the end, I would assume devialet users, as me, are in search of great reproduction.
Ah, you are talking about the sonic signature of the amp itself. So when you say "flat", you mean to say "neutral" meaning the amp doesn't impart any enhancement of the frequency range (ie. detailed which might mean enhancing the treble, warm which might mean enhancing the midrange, etc). Correct?
RE: Kef reference 1 - gitaarwerk - 16-Dec-2019
(11-Dec-2019, 10:40)ogs Wrote: Ah, I get it. The sound has less "color" and you use the term "flat". There is less harmonic flavor to the sound than you are used to. A bit like plugging an electric guitar directly into a mixing console instead of using a proper tubed guitar amp with a suitable microphone in front of it.
Yes, the Devialet amps are very clean and neutral. I know some people coming from classic tube amps feel the sound of Devialet amps to be lean to begin with, but find it hard to go back to tubes after getting used to their Devialets.
Yes, :-) Sorry if confused you. I sometimes am confused with the terminology. Exactly what you described is what I mean.
(11-Dec-2019, 17:17)sfdude Wrote:(11-Dec-2019, 09:08)gitaarwerk Wrote: I think you should see flat as a good thing. Because SAM does introduce more stable sound stage. That is still really really good. Flat in my ears means not too excited/harmonics/distortion. It's just not something I was used to. Before this, I had a bi-amped Exposure 2010S2 set, which wasn't very powerful.
Its not lifeless, but maybe its less distortion what makes the difference sound more flat than it used to be. The exposures, looking at the noise/thd charts, tell me they are really not so great distortion. While i.e. Devialet or other brands as Accuphase E207 are. That, could exactly be the issue. If the distortion is a nice harmonic, it does add to the sound. It excites, but is not a fair reproduction. So I would say if that's my reference point, the devialet sounds "more boring" than before. Which is not fair, but it's for me the truth. And as I mentioned earlier, that's just getting used to it. In the end, I would assume devialet users, as me, are in search of great reproduction.
Ah, you are talking about the sonic signature of the amp itself. So when you say "flat", you mean to say "neutral" meaning the amp doesn't impart any enhancement of the frequency range (ie. detailed which might mean enhancing the treble, warm which might mean enhancing the midrange, etc). Correct?
Indeed :-)