+- Devialet Chat (https://devialetchat.com)
+-- Forum: Devialet Chat (https://devialetchat.com/Forum-Devialet-Chat)
+--- Forum: Devialet News (https://devialetchat.com/Forum-Devialet-News)
+--- Thread: I just want to have a good old moan about Devialet (/Thread-I-just-want-to-have-a-good-old-moan-about-Devialet)
RE: I just want to have a good old moan about Devialet - Confused - 14-Jan-2020
thumb5 Wrote:Greg Wrote:...
Having said that, we need to get real. When Mathieu Pernot (Devialet Expert head engineer) attended Oxford Audio Consultants on 17th July last year, he presented as a very demoralised company employee and I suspected he was sympathetic to some of the challenges about the Expert range he received, albeit he had to keep to the company line. He did however reveal that the Expert line was not selling world wide in the numbers needed for good company profit and made a comparison with large volumes of Phantom sales. I cannot recall the figures he quoted but what he said made it clear to me that the Expert range would not be a priority. Ian @thumb5 was our scribe at that meet and I’ve checked his report which centred on a set of questions asked on this forum. It maybe that he recorded the statistics Mathieu gave at that event and can explain in more statistical detail. I hope so, because what Mathieu said made it very clear to me where Devialet’s priority will lie. If the Expert range does not turn the profit their other products do, no wonder all is quiet on the Expert upgrade/bug fixing/development/communication front.
@Greg: the figures I think you're searching for are in @Confused's post following the event:
Quote:One interesting statistic came up in conversation, apparently there are about 7000 Expert amps sold, the Phantom & Reactor range is now heading over 100,000 units and counting. Also consider that the Expert is the older product and hence has been available longer.
Yes, I recall Mathieu quoting the figures, however, I do not recall that this was in the context of the Expert not selling or not being profitable. I might be wrong, and I was not the only one there, so I would be interested in if anyone else can remember what was said, or at least the general context of the conversation. From what I recall the conversation was more centered around support and allocation of recourses for software development, the Phantoms have the larger user base, so will get priority over limited resources. As I said, it was a while ago now, so I might be wrong, and I would be interested if anyone else can recall.
Where I absolutely agree with Greg is that Mathieu did indeed present as a demoralised company employee, this was very apparent.
Putting a positive spin on the numbers, I can see that there is a kind of symbiotic relationship between the Expert and the Phantom. Without development of the original ADH for the D-Premier, there would be no Phantom. Without the Development of the Phantom, we would not have SAM on the current Expert range, and so on. So for me this is why getting the Phantoms and Expert both on the same OS makes complete sense. Looking forward, there could even be some benefits from the move into car audio, such as DSP systems for cars morphing into room correction for the Phantom and Expert. Overly optimistic perhaps, but not impossible.
As a complete aside, I was flicking through some recent copies of "Hifi News and Record Review" yesterday, and every single issue has a full two page Expert Pro advert, going back many months. So Devialet are spending some money advertising. This certainly does not give the impression that the Expert has been abandoned, as some are suggesting. Although we could speculate that they are advertising because they are not selling just as easily as it would be to speculate that Devialet are advertising the Expert because it is so profitable, who knows? (if you are vey cynical, you might wonder if a Devialet review will be appearing soon)
It now occurs to me that this post is very off topic because I have not moaned yet. So back to the moaning. Traffic was bad this morning, really very bad indeed, it's raining too, miserable. I also note that there have been some excellent posts earlier in the thread by people moaning about all the moaning about Devialet on this forum. Fair points, and fully on topic for this thread. What I would say to them is that this is where this thread can be useful, if there are any off topic or gratuitous moaning posts elsewhere on the forum, we just need to direct them to this thread for further discussion here. Then, the rest of the forum should ne reasonably moan free, for those that just want to discuss music, equipment, system tweaking, tips etc. And for those that do actually want to have a good moan, then this thread offers an oasis of joy.
(note to self, trying to keep internet forums somehow organised and on topic is a fools game, you are an idiot, it will never work)
RE: I just want to have a good old moan about Devialet - f1eng - 19-Jan-2020
I think part of the problem is that to a large extent the amp isn't the ideal choice for people who like to do experiments with their system.
In common with active speakers, which almost certainly give better SQ than separates of anything like the same price, the Devialet is "fit and use" so not as popular amongst hobbyists who may like to try mix and match of DAC, preamp and power amp.
I like having the extra power over the D-Premier but otherwise I would be happy back with the pair of them I had 10 years ago...
RE: I just want to have a good old moan about Devialet - sfdude - 20-Jan-2020
I would like to think (wishful on my part) that due to the overwhelming sales of the Phantom speaker lines, this is in turn driving infrequent but needed innovation being put into the Expert series. Similar to Apple’s generally best selling line of MacBook Pros and their infrequent but typically envelope pushing tech on their Mac Pro. All this advanced development and tech investments usually push down to the more affordable lines at some point.
But if the product isn’t broken (with the case of the Expert series, not really a whole lot broken with it), then I would expect no news on it until the next upgrade announcement.
The folks at Devialet are still audiophiles hopefully first, but they definitely hit a chord with a lifestyle product (Phantom) which should help with any future upgrades for our Experts.
My moan just boils down to having more speakers supported via SAM.
RE: I just want to have a good old moan about Devialet - awkaplan - 26-Jan-2020
I like some of the wishful thinking here, but just know that I'm done. I'm not just moaning, I'm done. I'm absolutely done. And if you pump another dollar into this company, you're supporting...I can't even look at my Expert anymore.
RE: I just want to have a good old moan about Devialet - G51 - 26-Jan-2020
(26-Jan-2020, 06:10)awkaplan Wrote: I like some of the wishful thinking here, but just know that I'm done. I'm not just moaning, I'm done. I'm absolutely done. And if you pump another dollar into this company, you're supporting...I can't even look at my Expert anymore.It is Capitalism - Devialet puts much of its efforts in developing Phantoms and Reactors because the two series may bring in more profits. It thinks that Expert line is good enough already and further improvement on Experts would mean a large sum of money in R&D. Just like a person holding a master degree may give up to go further for a PhD title because he has to spend so much more time and money to do so.
The real problem is whether Devialet would really further develop the PRO's ability even it makes profit on the other product.
RE: I just want to have a good old moan about Devialet - Pim - 27-Jan-2020
(26-Jan-2020, 06:10)awkaplan Wrote: I like some of the wishful thinking here, but just know that I'm done. I'm not just moaning, I'm done. I'm absolutely done. And if you pump another dollar into this company, you're supporting...I can't even look at my Expert anymore.
Interesting post @awkaplan. You haven't had yours for very long yet so I'm trying to gauge where you're coming from.
1. Are you disappointed with the unit that you bought? Is it not working to your satisfaction? Is the sound quality just not up there? Is the streaming function unreliable?
2. Did you think when you bought it that there were going to be all kinds of updates of the firmware that were going to make the Expert the ultimate integrated that would forever be ahead of the competition?
3. Are you a tinkerer that just can't get satisfaction out of the Expert because there's not enough to tinker with?
If the answer is either 2 or 3 I wouldn't be too quick to replace your Expert. Have a good look around. Even though Devialet have been sitting on their hands for a few year on the Expert, I think they're still way ahead of anything in their price class.
RE: I just want to have a good old moan about Devialet - struts - 27-Jan-2020
(27-Jan-2020, 08:13)Pim Wrote:(26-Jan-2020, 06:10)awkaplan Wrote: I like some of the wishful thinking here, but just know that I'm done. I'm not just moaning, I'm done. I'm absolutely done. And if you pump another dollar into this company, you're supporting...I can't even look at my Expert anymore.
Interesting post @awkaplan. You haven't had yours for very long yet so I'm trying to gauge where you're coming from.
1. Are you disappointed with the unit that you bought? Is it not working to your satisfaction? Is the sound quality just not up there? Is the streaming function unreliable?
2. Did you think when you bought it that there were going to be all kinds of updates of the firmware that were going to make the Expert the ultimate integrated that would forever be ahead of the competition?
3. Are you a tinkerer that just can't get satisfaction out of the Expert because there's not enough to tinker with?
If the answer is either 2 or 3 I wouldn't be too quick to replace your Expert. Have a good look around. Even though Devialet have been sitting on their hands for a few year on the Expert, I think they're still way ahead of anything in their price class.
I agree @Pim. The grass is always greener..
While it is fair to say that I am also left feeling a little bit miffed by the Core Infinity "bait and switch" I have to concede that I have received more upgrades, hardware and software, to what I originally purchased as a D-Premier than pretty much all the other hifi products I have ever owned put together. Yes, some of these were paid for, but many were not.
Keeping the faith - for the moment..
RE: I just want to have a good old moan about Devialet - G51 - 28-Jan-2020
It is definitely a waste of the French company's truly innovative ability and talent in pushing further the design of the amplifier.
RE: I just want to have a good old moan about Devialet - awkaplan - 28-Jan-2020
(27-Jan-2020, 19:47)struts Wrote:(27-Jan-2020, 08:13)Pim Wrote:(26-Jan-2020, 06:10)awkaplan Wrote: I like some of the wishful thinking here, but just know that I'm done. I'm not just moaning, I'm done. I'm absolutely done. And if you pump another dollar into this company, you're supporting...I can't even look at my Expert anymore.
Interesting post @awkaplan. You haven't had yours for very long yet so I'm trying to gauge where you're coming from.
1. Are you disappointed with the unit that you bought? Is it not working to your satisfaction? Is the sound quality just not up there? Is the streaming function unreliable?
2. Did you think when you bought it that there were going to be all kinds of updates of the firmware that were going to make the Expert the ultimate integrated that would forever be ahead of the competition?
3. Are you a tinkerer that just can't get satisfaction out of the Expert because there's not enough to tinker with?
If the answer is either 2 or 3 I wouldn't be too quick to replace your Expert. Have a good look around. Even though Devialet have been sitting on their hands for a few year on the Expert, I think they're still way ahead of anything in their price class.
I agree @Pim. The grass is always greener..
While it is fair to say that I am also left feeling a little bit miffed by the Core Infinity "bait and switch" I have to concede that I have received more upgrades, hardware and software, to what I originally purchased as a D-Premier than pretty much all the other hifi products I have ever owned put together. Yes, some of these were paid for, but many were not.
Keeping the faith - for the moment..
---
Moment of frustration. The equipment is gorgeous, but this new partnership with Belkin or whoever, moving into Magnolial...look on LinkedIn, check out the tenure of many in the company. Of the 310 people with LinkedIn profiles, 195 have been with the company 1-2yrs. 56 less than a year. That's a churn.
@Pim The sound? I like it, but I really don't know any better. I like the glissine quality that remains even if you lay down a new mains cable that fills out the bottom-end. It's polite. But it's become a bit fatiguing recently.
So is this sort of an ad-hominem complaint? Yeah.
RE: I just want to have a good old moan about Devialet - JFX - 28-Jan-2020
There is a Devialet event going to happen to morrow in Sweden at Audio Concept :-) The text says that one can bring their speakers to the store and have them sam´ed and discussion about Devialet present time and future! Unfortunately I can't attend the event those I live in a different part of Sweden!
https://audioconcept.se/devialet-sam-demo-event/