Martin Logan Summit X - Printable Version +- Devialet Chat (https://devialetchat.com) +-- Forum: Devialet Chat (https://devialetchat.com/Forum-Devialet-Chat) +--- Forum: Speakers (https://devialetchat.com/Forum-Speakers) +--- Thread: Martin Logan Summit X (/Thread-Martin-Logan-Summit-X) |
RE: Martin Logan Summit X - Jwg1749 - 08-Jan-2015 IMO the current range of Martin Logans shouldn't sound hard or edgy at high volumes. If they do, it's most likely the amp's protection circuits are cutting in and are causing soft clipping. This can produce a hard and flat sound. If so, you need an amp with higher voltage output. Remember: with ESLs it's about voltage, not current, because ESLs are capacitors, not resistors. A Devialet can supply bags of current, which makes it brilliant at driving conventional (resistive) electrodynamic speakers, but not ideal for (capacitative) ESLs. If you have an overly bright presentation at all volumes, that's more likely to be the result of room reflections or speaker placement. Try toeing the speakers out a bit and adjusting the feet so that the panel is nearly vertical. And get lots of soft furnishings. I think MLs prefer a fairly 'dead' acoustic. But whatever the cause of the problem, you should know immediately when you've solved it, because the speakers will sound as smooth as silk and present a 'walk-through' 3D image. Matt RE: Martin Logan Summit X - chiphoust - 08-Jan-2015 I have a Transparent Reference AES/EBU laying around. I will try this if needed. Thanks for the tip. (08-Jan-2015, 19:26)amabrok Wrote:(08-Jan-2015, 18:21)chiphoust Wrote: So... off to do the D400 audition this weekend or next, but I suspect Matt's comments may prove true for me too. I hope not though. RE: Martin Logan Summit X - chiphoust - 08-Jan-2015 With my big ARC tube amps, the speakers only get harsh at very high volumes. Otherwise they are smooth as silk and present a walk through image. The grip is not are good as solid state, but that the trade off eh? My guess is that the amps are clipping at those levels. I have tried the various vertical positions and landed at the minus one (1) degree setting as best. The toe-in was set using the flashlight technique, now iPhone flashlight technique. I am listening to the inner 1/3 of the panel at most. i am familiar with the "wall-slap" created by an improper toe-in. Back to the point... I am thinking of auditioning the Audio Research DM450 monoblocks. ARC claims they also have a linear power supply and can deliver what ESL's need. The only concern is that these are D Class amplifiers. I tend to gravitate to Audio Research amplifiers because I love Audio Research tube pre-amps and there definitely is synergy with the combination. Thanks for your thoughts. (08-Jan-2015, 20:06)Jwg1749 Wrote: IMO the current range of Martin Logans shouldn't sound hard or edgy at high volumes. If they do, it's most likely the amp's protection circuits are cutting in and are causing soft clipping. This can produce a hard and flat sound. RE: Martin Logan Summit X - Jwg1749 - 08-Jan-2015 (08-Jan-2015, 21:06)chiphoust Wrote: With my big ARC tube amps, the speakers only get harsh at very high volumes. Otherwise they are smooth as silk and present a walk through image. The grip is not are good as solid state, but that the trade off eh? My guess is that the amps are clipping at those levels. I have tried the various vertical positions and landed at the minus one (1) degree setting as best. The toe-in was set using the flashlight technique, now iPhone flashlight technique. I am listening to the inner 1/3 of the panel at most. i am familiar with the "wall-slap" created by an improper toe-in. You're obviously familiar with the foibles of ML panels! I haven't tried Class D amps with MLs. I'll be interested to hear your views on the AR monoblocs. Because of their wild impedance swings, MLs are possibly the most difficult speakers to drive. But when you get it right, there's very little that comes close ... Matt RE: Martin Logan Summit X - chiphoust - 08-Jan-2015 The energy storage of the DS450M's is 1368 joules, which is pretty serious and should be able to handle some pretty wild impedance. ??? Is Roger Sanders related to Gayle Martin Sanders, the co-founder of Martin Logan ??? (08-Jan-2015, 22:54)Jwg1749 Wrote:(08-Jan-2015, 21:06)chiphoust Wrote: With my big ARC tube amps, the speakers only get harsh at very high volumes. Otherwise they are smooth as silk and present a walk through image. The grip is not are good as solid state, but that the trade off eh? My guess is that the amps are clipping at those levels. I have tried the various vertical positions and landed at the minus one (1) degree setting as best. The toe-in was set using the flashlight technique, now iPhone flashlight technique. I am listening to the inner 1/3 of the panel at most. i am familiar with the "wall-slap" created by an improper toe-in. RE: Martin Logan Summit X - ozthepoz - 14-Jan-2015 (07-Jan-2015, 23:59)chiphoust Wrote: I am a newbie. I hope this post is appropriate. If not, someone please tell me. Hi - my tuppence worth. So I home demoed a D-Prem about 18 months ago and fell in love pretty much straight away . Couldn't afford it at the time, but when Devialet l launched their new range, I thought a 170 would do the job of driving my ML Vantages. So I borrowed one, all ready to splash out, but found that I wasn't enjoying the music quite so much. Lots of good things going on, but no D-Premier magic. I then borrowed a 240 and re-discovered what I had been missing. Eventually I bought a D-Prem and upgraded it to a 250 and the romance is back into my listening. I know the difference between a 200 and a 250 is meant to be minimal, and there are other posters on this forum who drive MLs with a 200 quite happily, but my ears tell me otherwise. RE: Martin Logan Summit X - chiphoust - 14-Jan-2015 Thank you for your post. i agree with your comments. So.... I am currently auditioning the D400 monos. As everyone may know, Robert Harley did a D200/D400 comparison review in the Absolute Sound 2/2015 edition. Everything he reported is being realized by me. In summary, the D200 was somewhat lacking. The D400, however, has provided unexpected good results. The sibilance is gone. The harshness is gone. The high volume strain is gone. The sound is alive, not flat. The slam is there. There is a magical combination of detail and liquidity. There is no noise. I can hear further into the music than ever before. It can play the Summit X's at near concert levels without hearing a hint of strain. At the -15 db volume setting, I could not take the SPL's and had to turn it down. This was not due to clipping. It was just too damn loud. Lastly and perhaps most important, the D400 monos did not fatigue me, whereas the D200 did, almost immediately, and they gave me a headache. I plan to do a "no alcohol involved" 4-5 hour listening session this weekend to test that completely. Another surprise was that I had to dial back the Summit X sub-woofers to get a proper balance with the panels. The 25 hz knob is at -4 db, the 50 hz is at -3 db. Admittedly, those may not be the final resting points. I may need to run a room scan to get it right. Anyway... Enjoy. (14-Jan-2015, 21:40)ozthepoz Wrote:(07-Jan-2015, 23:59)chiphoust Wrote: I am a newbie. I hope this post is appropriate. If not, someone please tell me. RE: Martin Logan Summit X - Jwg1749 - 14-Jan-2015 I had a 200 Companion on home demo (paired with my own 200) at the same time as a Sanders Magtech power amp. The Magtech was so much better than the 400 at driving my ML Montis: I was shocked. I bought the Magtech. I do still think the Devialets are among the very best amps for driving electrodynamic speakers, just not for electrostatics. Matt RE: Martin Logan Summit X - Confused - 15-Jan-2015 Picking up on ozthepoz's comments above, I think that there can actually be a very big difference between the 200 & 250. I say can, rather than is, because this is very much speaker dependant. With some speakers the difference appears to be non existent, I guess with speakers that provide easier loads. However, I observed from my experience auditioning amps with the KEF Blades that the difference between what was then the 170 & 240 was huge, far more than you would expect from the delta in power. It should be remembered that the different case for the 250 makes a huge difference in the cooling performance of the amp, which is in itself related to how the power supply reacts to load demands. For me the difference was night and day in terms of dynamics and control etc. To be clear, I have no idea how this relates to driving ML's. It's a case of things being rather more complex than you might think in the relationship between amplifier and any given speaker. RE: Martin Logan Summit X - chiphoust - 15-Jan-2015 I plan to auditoin the Sanders amps too, mainly based on your post. I am looking at the ESL Mkii monoblocks. Thoughts? (14-Jan-2015, 23:18)Jwg1749 Wrote: I had a 200 Companion on home demo (paired with my own 200) at the same time as a Sanders Magtech power amp. The Magtech was so much better than the 400 at driving my ML Montis: I was shocked. I bought the Magtech. I do still think the Devialets are among the very best amps for driving electrodynamic speakers, just not for electrostatics. |