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~$10K speaker budget - Focal Kanta 2/3s or choose something else? - Printable Version

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~$10K speaker budget - Focal Kanta 2/3s or choose something else? - zambie - 15-Nov-2020

Looking for upgrading my speakers. My current setup is a Devialet 220pro with Martin Logan 60xts. It's been a bit of an inorganic journey so far - I bought those speakers first, and at the time never thought I'd splurge on that much on an amp (got a used devialet), but while I've been pretty pleased with things, I can't help but feel that the Devialet is capable of driving more capable speakers and I'm ready to dip my toes into exploring a next set of speakers. 

Interest is piqued with the Focal Kanta 2s (or 3s). One of the hi-fi dealers in my area has them on a good sale (focal kanta 2s are being offered at approx $7500 for the pair). 

  • Looking for some advice on those of you that have the Focal Kanta 2/3s & Devialaet combination: your experiences - what do you love about the sound signature with this combination?
  • Any one else have recommendations for other speakers to trial out that are in the price point that I mentioned?


Thanks!!


RE: ~$10K speaker budget - Focal Kanta 2/3s or choose something else? - zambie - 19-Nov-2020

The responses are phenomenal! keep them coming.

So I went to a couple of hifi shops today:
The Kanta 2 was out of stock, but auditioned the Kanta 3s. Loved the image - very nice mid-range and the tweeter sings! The bass was a bit muddy and thin which seems weird, but based on what I've heard from other reviewers, am pretty sure that the speakers can generate good bass. It must have been something in the room set up. Am getting a 25% off - coming to approx ~$11K.

Then I went to another shop and they told me to come in tomorrow and try out:
B&W 804d3
Wilson Sabrinas (used)
Asked me to get my devialet as well - that ways it'll basically be my actual setup!

I've seen a few of you have been quite happy with the 804 d3s .... any quirks I should be aware of? I probably need to check efficiency of these speakers and whether my 220pro can drive them well as well as how low the bass goes ... some homework to be done I guess

I haven't seen any overt mention of the Wilson Sabrinas - anyone have these and can point me on what to expect?


RE: ~$10K speaker budget - Focal Kanta 2/3s or choose something else? - frejo - 19-Nov-2020

If the budget is 10k, how about a pair of Wilson Sasha or Sophia 3? I really like these Wilsons myself.


RE: ~$10K speaker budget - Focal Kanta 2/3s or choose something else? - Jean-Marie - 19-Nov-2020

(19-Nov-2020, 02:31)zambie Wrote: The responses are phenomenal! keep them coming.

So I went to a couple of hifi shops today:
The Kanta 2 was out of stock, but auditioned the Kanta 3s. Loved the image - very nice mid-range and the tweeter sings! The bass was a bit muddy and thin which seems weird, but based on what I've heard from other reviewers, am pretty sure that the speakers can generate good bass. It must have been something in the room set up. Am getting a 25% off - coming to approx ~$11K.

Then I went to another shop and they told me to come in tomorrow and try out:
B&W 804d3
Wilson Sabrinas (used)
Asked me to get my devialet as well - that ways it'll basically be my actual setup!

I've seen a few of you have been quite happy with the 804 d3s .... any quirks I should be aware of? I probably need to check efficiency of these speakers and whether my 220pro can drive them well as well as how low the bass goes ... some homework to be done I guess

I haven't seen any overt mention of the Wilson Sabrinas - anyone have these and can point me on what to expect?
What was the amplifier driving the Kanta 3s? 

If I remember correctly they have a pair of 21cm woofers, which if not controlled properly by the amplifier could explain the muddiness.
Control being definitely a forte of the Devialet, I would fully expect your D220 not to have this kind of problem.

Best is to listen to them with your own D220 or if the dealer can put a D220 in front of them.

Jean-Marie


RE: ~$10K speaker budget - Focal Kanta 2/3s or choose something else? - David A - 19-Nov-2020

(19-Nov-2020, 02:31)zambie Wrote: The responses are phenomenal! keep them coming.

So I went to a couple of hifi shops today:
The Kanta 2 was out of stock, but auditioned the Kanta 3s. Loved the image - very nice mid-range and the tweeter sings! The bass was a bit muddy and thin which seems weird, but based on what I've heard from other reviewers, am pretty sure that the speakers can generate good bass. It must have been something in the room set up. Am getting a 25% off - coming to approx ~$11K.

I haven't heard the Kantas with a Devialet so I can't give you specific comments on them. I do have Sopra 2s with my 140 Pro and I have heard the Kanta 2s in a showroom but with Naim amplification. I don't think that the bass on the Kanta 2s was thin but I didn't think it was as well defined as the bass on my Sopras. Having said that, it also wasn't as extended but it was voiced slightly differently, I think to deliver a particular balance with the mids and highs and I thought that was a reasonable choice given that it lacked the extension of the Sopra. I didn't find it muddy.

In my experience muddy bass is often due to poor setup in the room and/or modal problems in the room, especially if there are peaks in bass response which don't decay quickly enough and result in the bass sounding sluggish and thick. That's not the only possible cause of muddy bass but when I heard the Kanta 2s I didn't hear anything that I thought was muddy bass. The Kanta 3s have more extension than the bass and could be more prone to causing modal problems in some rooms as a result. I definitely wouldn't assume that what you heard with the 3s is also to be expected with the 2's, especially with a different amp and in a different room to your own. You didn't say what amp was driving the Kanta 3s but if it wasn't your 220 and if the dealer is out of stock of the 2's I would suggest seeing if you can arrange another audition of t he 3s with your own amp to see if a different amp makes a difference. In my experience Devialets have better bass control of speakers than most other amps so your perception of the Kanta 3s may well change if you hear them with your 220.

And definitely audition other speakers as well. Speakers are the component with the greatest range of variation in how they sound.


RE: ~$10K speaker budget - Focal Kanta 2/3s or choose something else? - zambie - 19-Nov-2020

(19-Nov-2020, 11:38)frejo Wrote: If the budget is 10k, how about a pair of Wilson Sasha or Sophia 3? I really like these Wilsons myself.

Not finding them used in my area! I'm going to start with the Sabrina's and do a side by side with the 804d3s and Sabrina X's today - take it from there. I'll keep a look out for the two you mentioned. Thanks!


RE: ~$10K speaker budget - Focal Kanta 2/3s or choose something else? - zambie - 19-Nov-2020

(19-Nov-2020, 12:09)Jean-Marie Wrote:
(19-Nov-2020, 02:31)zambie Wrote: The responses are phenomenal! keep them coming.

So I went to a couple of hifi shops today:
The Kanta 2 was out of stock, but auditioned the Kanta 3s. Loved the image - very nice mid-range and the tweeter sings! The bass was a bit muddy and thin which seems weird, but based on what I've heard from other reviewers, am pretty sure that the speakers can generate good bass. It must have been something in the room set up. Am getting a 25% off - coming to approx ~$11K.

Then I went to another shop and they told me to come in tomorrow and try out:
B&W 804d3
Wilson Sabrinas (used)
Asked me to get my devialet as well - that ways it'll basically be my actual setup!

I've seen a few of you have been quite happy with the 804 d3s .... any quirks I should be aware of? I probably need to check efficiency of these speakers and whether my 220pro can drive them well as well as how low the bass goes ... some homework to be done I guess

I haven't seen any overt mention of the Wilson Sabrinas - anyone have these and can point me on what to expect?
What was the amplifier driving the Kanta 3s? 

If I remember correctly they have a pair of 21cm woofers, which if not controlled properly by the amplifier could explain the muddiness.
Control being definitely a forte of the Devialet, I would fully expect your D220 not to have this kind of problem.

Best is to listen to them with your own D220 or if the dealer can put a D220 in front of them.

Jean-Marie

Good question J-M : they were being driven by Naim's and I feel that might have been part of the problem even though Focal and Naim should be going well hand in hand. I agree - will probably be taking my D220 and do a listening test. But today - going to be trying out the Sabrina's and BW 804d3s with my gear. Want to see if I'm blown away.


RE: ~$10K speaker budget - Focal Kanta 2/3s or choose something else? - zambie - 19-Nov-2020

(19-Nov-2020, 12:53)David A Wrote:
(19-Nov-2020, 02:31)zambie Wrote: The responses are phenomenal! keep them coming.

So I went to a couple of hifi shops today:
The Kanta 2 was out of stock, but auditioned the Kanta 3s. Loved the image - very nice mid-range and the tweeter sings! The bass was a bit muddy and thin which seems weird, but based on what I've heard from other reviewers, am pretty sure that the speakers can generate good bass. It must have been something in the room set up. Am getting a 25% off - coming to approx ~$11K.

I haven't heard the Kantas with a Devialet so I can't give you specific comments on them. I do have Sopra 2s with my 140 Pro and I have heard the Kanta 2s in a showroom but with Naim amplification. I don't think that the bass on the Kanta 2s was thin but I didn't think it was as well defined as the bass on my Sopras. Having said that, it also wasn't as extended but it was voiced slightly differently, I think to deliver a particular balance with the mids and highs and I thought that was a reasonable choice given that it lacked the extension of the Sopra. I didn't find it muddy.

In my experience muddy bass is often due to poor setup in the room and/or modal problems in the room, especially if there are peaks in bass response which don't decay quickly enough and result in the bass sounding sluggish and thick. That's not the only possible cause of muddy bass but when I heard the Kanta 2s I didn't hear anything that I thought was muddy bass. The Kanta 3s have more extension than the bass and could be more prone to causing modal problems in some rooms as a result. I definitely wouldn't assume that what you heard with the 3s is also to be expected with the 2's, especially with a different amp and in a different room to your own. You didn't say what amp was driving the Kanta 3s but if it wasn't your 220 and if the dealer is out of stock of the 2's I would suggest seeing if you can arrange another audition of t he 3s with your own amp to see if a different amp makes a difference. In my experience Devialets have better bass control of speakers than most other amps so your perception of the Kanta 3s may well change if you hear them with your 220.

And definitely audition other speakers as well. Speakers are the component with the greatest range of variation in how they sound.

Hi David,
Yeah - muddy might be a bad way to represent it: basically it wasn't as defined as I was expecting it to be. It was being driven by Naim's and that might be part of the problem. I intend to take my D220s to do an audition and see how that plays. With the Kanta 3s - i'm worried that they might be an overkill for my current apartment. Going to probably try and be patient while they stock up with the Kanta 2s. I really did like the imaging of the voice and some of the instruments with the Kanta 3, not crazy holographic but a decently high soundstage and a moderate depth. Am heading out today to trial the Sabrinas and 804d3s to form an opinion. The Sabrina's are putting me in a quandry - on the one hand I'm hearing that they are supposed to be absolutely marvelously musical and coherent integration across the drivers to give a lovely sound, but on the other hand am reading that the drivers are quite a bit slower than things on the market today and the tweeter rolls off pretty early (21K). Anyways, the proof will be in the pudding. Hoping for a good audition! Thanks for the guidance!!


RE: ~$10K speaker budget - Focal Kanta 2/3s or choose something else? - BoyScout - 20-Nov-2020

Based on personal experience, the sabrinas, in my opinion and taste, are far better than the B&W (and more expensive).


RE: ~$10K speaker budget - Focal Kanta 2/3s or choose something else? - David A - 20-Nov-2020

@zambie

I can get holographic imaging with the Sopra 2s, and I could also with the Dynaudio Contour 1.3 SE that I had before the Sopras. I think you could get holographic imaging with the Kansas but holographic imaging really depends more on speaker and listening position placement and/or acoustic treatment to deal with reflections that confuse the ear. I think provided a speaker is capable of providing stable and precise imaging, then you can get holographic imaging but if you're in an apartment, if the system is in your living room, and if you have a partner who wants a living room that can function as a living room rather than a dedicated audio listening room, you're probably going to have to settle for good to great imaging that falls something short of holographic.

It's hard to say whether a speaker would be overkill for a room without trying it in the room. I thought the Sopra 2s might be overkill for my room but decided to take the risk. I'd say it's borderline whether or not they're overkill. I've had to do a lot of work on setup to avoid overkill, mostly because my room is L-shaped and awkward as a result. I think the floor area would be fine for them if the room was rectangular, the asymmetric shape places restrictions on placement and listening distance which made setup a bit on the awkward side. Acoustic treatment can help with overkill setups but it's not living room or partner friendly.

I've heard 2 versions of the Wilson Alexandras and an old version of the Watt Puppies in people's systems and been impressed. I wouldn't worry about a tweeter roll off at 21 kHz. because most people older than 20 can't hear 20 kHz, that's a really young person's upper limit, and for most people of 40 or older with good hearing the upper limit is probably closer to 15 kHz or so. When it comes to music, the highest fundamental produced by an instrument is in the 7 to 8 kHz range, anything above that is overtones, and air becomes increasingly absorptive of high frequencies as frequency increases. A roll off at 21 kHz might be an issue if you're listening to source material which includes high frequency content above 20 kHz which basically rules out digital sources with 44.1/48 kHz which hit a brick wall at 22/24 kHz, and if you've got a room with a lot of absorption.

I'd listen to the Sabrinas and anything else that strikes your fancy which is in your price range and I wouldn't worry too much about what other people say. Just listen. People told me things like the Beryllium tweeter on the Sopras is hot, Devialets are bright, and the result of that combination would not be good. Those people have since heard the combination in my room and not one of them complained that the sound was bright. I once heard a pair of Avant Gard Unos in an incredibly small alcove at a dealer's shop, set up with aluminium cladding on the wall behind them, glass walls either side, and horn loaded tweeter and mid and expected that the sound would be bright. It wasn't, and it was surprisingly good considering the very small space they were in, in fact I thought they sounded better than the B&W 800s which they had set up in their main demo room. There's only one way to find out whether a speaker will do it for you or not and that's to listen to it. Just go and listen and see what you think.