(31-Jan-2015, 14:38)Confused Wrote: I'm running a D800 and Cadenza Black, so a very similar set up and cartridge setting to yourself.  I find the phono input very quiet, at least by the standards of normal phono stages.  How loud is this white noise exactly?  I presume you are using the Master phono inputs, not the Companions?  This one is very puzzling.

(01-Feb-2015, 11:06)Confused Wrote: It occurs to me that maybe this is all absolutely normal?  An MC cartridge has a very low output, vastly lower than you would get from any other source.  Hence the gain on the phono input is vastly greater than for any other input.  So there will be some noise.  I tried this on my set up, and with relatively high sensitivity speakers and the amp set to -9dB you can hear the normal hiss.  It is not loud as such, but yes, it's noticeable.  Actually playing vinyl at -9dB would be very high volume indeed, normal volume with my set up and vinyl would be maybe -17dB.  Long term at -9dB I would probably go deaf assume the police didn't arrive first to confiscate my gear.  So maybe this is just one of those things, the noise floor is higher with vinyl than for digital.  It is generally reckoned that the phono stage is better when set to 96kHz, rather than 192kHz (set in the advanced phono stage settings), this is because the 96kHz setting is a little quieter and does not offer any perceptible loss in sound quality.  Might be worth a try if you happen to be set at 192kHz.

Do you actually notice the noise during normal vinyl playback?  If not, maybe there is nothing to worry about.  Although I know myself that it is very easy to get a little obsessed with these things.  HiFi can mess with the mind!

(31-Jan-2015, 16:34)theaudioguru Wrote:

(31-Jan-2015, 14:38)Confused Wrote: I'm running a D800 and Cadenza Black, so a very similar set up and cartridge setting to yourself.  I find the phono input very quiet, at least by the standards of normal phono stages.  How loud is this white noise exactly?  I presume you are using the Master phono inputs, not the Companions?  This one is very puzzling.

Thanks to both replies above.
Noise is wide spectrum, stereo and occurs at -9 db even when no cables are connected to the phono input on master.
I created a phono input on the companion, same thing! Both unit fed from a Panamax unit.
On other inputs there is no noise at all.

I'm baffled because this is a new phenomena.

(01-Feb-2015, 11:48)Mohmm Wrote:

(01-Feb-2015, 11:06)Confused Wrote: It occurs to me that maybe this is all absolutely normal?  An MC cartridge has a very low output, vastly lower than you would get from any other source.  Hence the gain on the phono input is vastly greater than for any other input.  So there will be some noise.  I tried this on my set up, and with relatively high sensitivity speakers and the amp set to -9dB you can hear the normal hiss.  It is not loud as such, but yes, it's noticeable.  Actually playing vinyl at -9dB would be very high volume indeed, normal volume with my set up and vinyl would be maybe -17dB.  Long term at -9dB I would probably go deaf assume the police didn't arrive first to confiscate my gear.  So maybe this is just one of those things, the noise floor is higher with vinyl than for digital.  It is generally reckoned that the phono stage is better when set to 96kHz, rather than 192kHz (set in the advanced phono stage settings), this is because the 96kHz setting is a little quieter and does not offer any perceptible loss in sound quality.  Might be worth a try if you happen to be set at 192kHz.

Do you actually notice the noise during normal vinyl playback?  If not, maybe there is nothing to worry about.  Although I know myself that it is very easy to get a little obsessed with these things.  HiFi can mess with the mind!

Hi Confused. It just occurred to me that it's crucial to set the right gain in the phono settings. There is the slider where you set the maximum level of the cartridge. With an MC this will usually be between 500 and 650 micro Volt rms. It would be worthwhile to check the normal output level of your cartridge. The lower you set the slider, the more pre-amplification will be done and the higher the noise. 

I use a Lyra Delos specified for 0.6 mV@5cm/sec, which imo translates to a setting of 600. This is a bit too high for some LPs which are recorded with a very low level, but in the majority it works well with a normal/acceptable level of clippings. 

(01-Feb-2015, 12:02)Confused Wrote:

(01-Feb-2015, 11:48)Mohmm Wrote:

(01-Feb-2015, 11:06)Confused Wrote: It occurs to me that maybe this is all absolutely normal?  An MC cartridge has a very low output, vastly lower than you would get from any other source.  Hence the gain on the phono input is vastly greater than for any other input.  So there will be some noise.  I tried this on my set up, and with relatively high sensitivity speakers and the amp set to -9dB you can hear the normal hiss.  It is not loud as such, but yes, it's noticeable.  Actually playing vinyl at -9dB would be very high volume indeed, normal volume with my set up and vinyl would be maybe -17dB.  Long term at -9dB I would probably go deaf assume the police didn't arrive first to confiscate my gear.  So maybe this is just one of those things, the noise floor is higher with vinyl than for digital.  It is generally reckoned that the phono stage is better when set to 96kHz, rather than 192kHz (set in the advanced phono stage settings), this is because the 96kHz setting is a little quieter and does not offer any perceptible loss in sound quality.  Might be worth a try if you happen to be set at 192kHz.

Do you actually notice the noise during normal vinyl playback?  If not, maybe there is nothing to worry about.  Although I know myself that it is very easy to get a little obsessed with these things.  HiFi can mess with the mind!

Hi Confused. It just occurred to me that it's crucial to set the right gain in the phono settings. There is the slider where you set the maximum level of the cartridge. With an MC this will usually be between 500 and 650 micro Volt rms. It would be worthwhile to check the normal output level of your cartridge. The lower you set the slider, the more pre-amplification will be done and the higher the noise. 

I use a Lyra Delos specified for 0.6 mV@5cm/sec, which imo translates to a setting of 600. This is a bit too high for some LPs which are recorded with a very low level, but in the majority it works well with a normal/acceptable level of clippings. 

Agreed.  It is worth noting that most cartridge manufacturer stated output levels are averages at a particular speed / frequency.  Because of this, it is necessary to set the level a little higher in the Configurator, because the absolute maximum possible cartridge output will be higher than this figure.  The Cadenza is quoted at 450mV.  So settings in the Devialet need to be 500mV as an absolute minimum to avoid clipping, and anything up to 600 or even higher will yield good results.  It is a balance between amplifier headroom an clipping, although clipping is very bad, so best not to aim too low!