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A Confused streaming system - Mutec / SOtM Ultra
On a UMIK, the 90 degree is the vertical calibration file. My hunch is it’s less likely to be favouring one speaker or the other measuring this way, most people advanced in RC recommend pointing it up.

I read something when I first got the mic which said that the 90 degree calib files are mathematically generated. Only the zero degree is measured. So you have to trust they go it right, as I believe it was someone external that worked out the relationship between the two.

I did mean to measure both ways when I last did it to get my HAF filters, but who has the time - it took nearly a year to find that window to myself!

>>> 1st Place Award: Devialet, last decades most disappointing technology purchase.  <<<

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(17-Apr-2018, 09:18)Hifi_swlon Wrote: I did mean to measure both ways when I last did it to get my HAF filters, but who has the time - it took nearly a year to find that window to myself!

What window?  I think this is the window I was desperately trying to find on Sunday night.  I got frustrated after about 10 minutes, I don't want to spend the rest of 2018 looking for it! Angry

If you could advise the path, or what to click, or a screen shot or something, it would be much appreciated! Shy
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - iFi Zen Stream - Mutec REF10 - MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
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Confused.. Are you keeping the SOTM kit?
I'm really enjoying my Mutec-10. Although I do not have a serious streamer yet. I have been using Chromecast for streaming Spotify and Oppo 203 for streaming my local library. I connected chromecast because I had a spare toslink input on MC3+USB, but I must tell you this thing punches way above its weight with Mutec combination. I actually like it much better than Spotify connect on Devialet and better than Oppo.
I'm trying to decide between SOTM kit and DCS Network Bridge. I'm also getting the LPS from oppomod for my Oppo as a stopgap solution.
I 'm not really convinced with SOTM after listening your impressions so far plus its a multi box solution with maze of wires. Have you heard/tried Network Bridge?
Oppo-203 / SonicTransporter i7 Roon Core ->Trinnov Altitute-16->TAD M2500MK-1 -> TAD CR-1
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I’ve had this app on my iPad for ages, and it has just occurred to me that it may come in useful for anyone wanting to generate test tones/sweeps/pink noise etc. It can be routed directly through the Devialet via airplay and if you connect a pair of headphones either directly to the iPad or via the Devialet and your own headphone amp, you can test your hearing range. You can even adjust the phase of the output using the red circle with a vertical line through it. I’ve included some screenshots, the first of which is the icon for the app, which is free.


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Project Eperience X Pack with Ortofon Rondo Red MC, Oppo BDP 105D, 2 x Sonos Connect, QNAP HS251+ NAS with 2 X 6TB Western Digital Red, Mac 5K 32GB running Lifetime Roon, iPad Pro 12.9" for remote control.  Etalon Ethernet Isolator, Devialet 440 Pro CI, Sonus faber Olympica ll with Isoacoustics Gaia ll feet, Auralic Taurus Mkll headphone amp.Denon AH-D5000, Sennheiser HD600 and HD800 with Cardas cable,  Van Den Hul The First Ultimate and Crystal interconnects, Furutech power cables, GSP Audio Spatia speaker cable.
South Coast England
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I had decided that I would not update this thread until I had firmer conclusions as to what was happening with my system and if I was indeed keeping the SOtM kit.  However, as @sam1000 has asked the question, I will try to answer, and give a general update while I am at it.

The last two weeks have been incredibly busy for me, so I have not had much time with my system at all, this is a little frustrating because what I need to do more than anything is just spend more time with some general listening.  

First to answer sam100's specific question.  The answer is I really don't know!  As things stand I am in the curious situation where I have added some kit to my system, the kit appears to be superior to what replaced it, but I no longer like my system as much as I did before.  Very strange!  I have many theories:

1.  My system is a little out of balance tonally, this was something that did not bother too much until adding the SOtM kit.  The extra transparency and accuracy of the SOtM kit in the mids and highs have somehow made the pre-existing problem more prominent, to the point it irritates me so much that I am no longer enjoying the other goodness in my system.

2.  Somehow the SOtM kit does not suit my system, does not work with the Blades or my ears or something.  

3.  Maybe the SOtM kit is not as good as everyone makes it out to be, and this is why I don't like it.

4.  A sub-theory of all the above, is maybe a bit of fine tuning is needed, perhaps replacing the sMS-500 with two Paul Hynes SR4's is all that is needed to take the annoying edge off the highs.  (If anyone out there wants to buy a nearly new sPS-500 with £160 copper "Y" cable, send me a PM!  It might be on eBay soon, so grab it while you can!)

Last weekend I had a few hours spare and started experimenting again with REW and room correction.  I did actually manage to make a convolution and load it into Roon, but I am at a level where I can do things but I am not at all confident I am doing things right.  My aim was to dial out any system imbalance, and hence give myself a better idea of which of the 4 points above is most likely correct, or more specifically if point 1 is correct.  With room speaker interaction issues dialed out to a degree, would the SOtM kit start to sing?

Frankly, I am now sick to death of messing about with kit, REW and all the rest of it.  I just want to get back to enjoying music again!  So having wasted yet more time last weekend I reached a conclusion as to my next move.  I think I have now become very competent at taking measurements with REW, here I am confident that I know exactly what I am doing.  As a mini update here, I reobtained my UMIK-1 calibration file.  It is designated as a 90° file, so thanks to the input from @alandbush & @thumb5, I am now confident that the upwards microphone orientation is correct.  Previously I suspected this was giving the best results, but it is so nice to confirm and be sure.  So, I have REW measurements cracked.  A few hours actually trying to make room correction convolutions and much reading on the subject, I realised that to learn to do this properly, I mean really get it right, would take for more time than I could afford.  I then thought of Thierry and his Home Audio Fidelity service.  This looked like an answer, I can do the measurements, no problem, then let someone who genuinely knows what he is doing with room correction do the really clever stuff.  Armed with Thierry's convolutions, I am hoping that I can get back to making sense of my system and maybe then evaluate the SOtM kit properly.

I made contact with Thierry last week and sent him some of the REW stuff I have done to date, he was very quick to respond and very helpfull.  This morning I had a quiet hour or so, I have made the various left / right measurements per his instructions, and sent them off.  Time will tell how this one works out!

sam100 mentioned the dCS Network Bridge.  To answer the specific question, I have not tried it, but it does interest me as it is one product I know I could borrow for audition.  From what I have heard, it does benefit from running from a decent master clock, so in my case I could use the REF10 with the MC3+USB which could provide a decent clock signal to the dCS, this might work quite well.  I had originally decided that I did not want the dCS, because I wanted something compatible with HQPlayer.  However, if start to conclude that points 2 or 3 above might be in play, I will revisit this option.  In fact, however Thierry's magic HAF filters work out, it would be interesting to try the Network Bridge just for comparison, but one thing at a time.

In other news, the postman has just arrived with some new hifi kit that I have bought!  One of these:

   

This is actually the supply for the new UpTone Audio LPS-2, but you can use it with the LPS-1 that I have powering my network switch.  This features a new 'ground mod', which eliminates some high frequency noise that the old Meanwell 'energiser' suffered from.  Maybe this will make all the difference and give me audiophile joy?  It only cost £20 from VortexBox, so worth a shot.
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - iFi Zen Stream - Mutec REF10 - MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
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Can you clock the dCS bridge from the Mutec? It days in the specs for the bridge:
2x Word Clock Inputs on 2x BNC connectors, accept standard word clock at 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4 or 192kHz. The data rate can be the same as the clock rate or an exact multiple of the clock rate. Sensitive to TTL levels. Word Clock Output on 1x BNC connector, carries Word Clock at the same frequency as the data rate up to 96kHz.

Im not sure that I understand this correctly.
Project Eperience X Pack with Ortofon Rondo Red MC, Oppo BDP 105D, 2 x Sonos Connect, QNAP HS251+ NAS with 2 X 6TB Western Digital Red, Mac 5K 32GB running Lifetime Roon, iPad Pro 12.9" for remote control.  Etalon Ethernet Isolator, Devialet 440 Pro CI, Sonus faber Olympica ll with Isoacoustics Gaia ll feet, Auralic Taurus Mkll headphone amp.Denon AH-D5000, Sennheiser HD600 and HD800 with Cardas cable,  Van Den Hul The First Ultimate and Crystal interconnects, Furutech power cables, GSP Audio Spatia speaker cable.
South Coast England
Reply
(28-Apr-2018, 12:51)Confused Wrote: I had decided that I would not update this thread until I had firmer conclusions as to what was happening with my system and if I was indeed keeping the SOtM kit.  However, as @sam1000 has asked the question, I will try to answer, and give a general update while I am at it.

The last two weeks have been incredibly busy for me, so I have not had much time with my system at all, this is a little frustrating because what I need to do more than anything is just spend more time with some general listening.  

First to answer sam100's specific question.  The answer is I really don't know!  As things stand I am in the curious situation where I have added some kit to my system, the kit appears to be superior to what replaced it, but I no longer like my system as much as I did before.  Very strange!  I have many theories:

1.  My system is a little out of balance tonally, this was something that did not bother too much until adding the SOtM kit.  The extra transparency and accuracy of the SOtM kit in the mids and highs have somehow made the pre-existing problem more prominent, to the point it irritates me so much that I am no longer enjoying the other goodness in my system.

2.  Somehow the SOtM kit does not suit my system, does not work with the Blades or my ears or something.  

3.  Maybe the SOtM kit is not as good as everyone makes it out to be, and this is why I don't like it.

4.  A sub-theory of all the above, is maybe a bit of fine tuning is needed, perhaps replacing the sMS-500 with two Paul Hynes SR4's is all that is needed to take the annoying edge off the highs.  (If anyone out there wants to buy a nearly new sPS-500 with £160 copper "Y" cable, send me a PM!  It might be on eBay soon, so grab it while you can!)

Last weekend I had a few hours spare and started experimenting again with REW and room correction.  I did actually manage to make a convolution and load it into Roon, but I am at a level where I can do things but I am not at all confident I am doing things right.  My aim was to dial out any system imbalance, and hence give myself a better idea of which of the 4 points above is most likely correct, or more specifically if point 1 is correct.  With room speaker interaction issues dialed out to a degree, would the SOtM kit start to sing?

Frankly, I am now sick to death of messing about with kit, REW and all the rest of it.  I just want to get back to enjoying music again!  So having wasted yet more time last weekend I reached a conclusion as to my next move.  I think I have now become very competent at taking measurements with REW, here I am confident that I know exactly what I am doing.  As a mini update here, I reobtained my UMIK-1 calibration file.  It is designated as a 90° file, so thanks to the input from @alandbush & @thumb5, I am now confident that the upwards microphone orientation is correct.  Previously I suspected this was giving the best results, but it is so nice to confirm and be sure.  So, I have REW measurements cracked.  A few hours actually trying to make room correction convolutions and much reading on the subject, I realised that to learn to do this properly, I mean really get it right, would take for more time than I could afford.  I then thought of Thierry and his Home Audio Fidelity service.  This looked like an answer, I can do the measurements, no problem, then let someone who genuinely knows what he is doing with room correction do the really clever stuff.  Armed with Thierry's convolutions, I am hoping that I can get back to making sense of my system and maybe then evaluate the SOtM kit properly.

I made contact with Thierry last week and sent him some of the REW stuff I have done to date, he was very quick to respond and very helpfull.  This morning I had a quiet hour or so, I have made the various left / right measurements per his instructions, and sent them off.  Time will tell how this one works out!

sam100 mentioned the dCS Network Bridge.  To answer the specific question, I have not tried it, but it does interest me as it is one product I know I could borrow for audition.  From what I have heard, it does benefit from running from a decent master clock, so in my case I could use the REF10 with the MC3+USB which could provide a decent clock signal to the dCS, this might work quite well.  I had originally decided that I did not want the dCS, because I wanted something compatible with HQPlayer.  However, if start to conclude that points 2 or 3 above might be in play, I will revisit this option.  In fact, however Thierry's magic HAF filters work out, it would be interesting to try the Network Bridge just for comparison, but one thing at a time.

In other news, the postman has just arrived with some new hifi kit that I have bought!  One of these:



This is actually the supply for the new UpTone Audio LPS-2, but you can use it with the LPS-1 that I have powering my network switch.  This features a new 'ground mod', which eliminates some high frequency noise that the old Meanwell 'energiser' suffered from.  Maybe this will make all the difference and give me audiophile joy?  It only cost £20 from VortexBox, so worth a shot.
Why don't you try your LPS-1 to power either the SMS-200ultra or the tx-USBultra. 

I measured the current needs of the SMS-200ultra at 12V and it was below 0.8A. This may bring some improvement over the SPS-500.

I will measure the current needed for tx-USBultra soon too.

You could power your network switch with a wallwart SMPS in the meantime.
Win10/HQPlayer / Roon - Uptone Audio Etherregen switch / SOtM-SMS-200 ultra with clock input - Mutec REF 10 clock for the switch and the streamer - Denafrips GAIA DCC - Devialet D800 - YG Acoustics Carmel - Dual Elac SUB-2090 
power supplies: Uptone JS-2, SOtM SPS-500
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(28-Apr-2018, 17:29)Axel Wrote: Can you clock the dCS bridge from the Mutec? It days in the specs for the bridge:
2x Word Clock Inputs on 2x BNC connectors, accept standard word clock at 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4 or 192kHz. The data rate can be the same as the clock rate or an exact multiple of the clock rate. Sensitive to TTL levels. Word Clock Output on 1x BNC connector, carries Word Clock at the same frequency as the data rate up to 96kHz.

Im not sure that I understand this correctly.

This is what I understood few folks over CA forum are doing.
1. Ref-10 is connected to MC3+USB as master clock 
2. MC3+USB's word clock out then becomes input to Network Bridge.
Oppo-203 / SonicTransporter i7 Roon Core ->Trinnov Altitute-16->TAD M2500MK-1 -> TAD CR-1
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(28-Apr-2018, 21:34)sam1000 Wrote:
(28-Apr-2018, 17:29)Axel Wrote: Can you clock the dCS bridge from the Mutec? It days in the specs for the bridge:
2x Word Clock Inputs on 2x BNC connectors, accept standard word clock at 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4 or 192kHz. The data rate can be the same as the clock rate or an exact multiple of the clock rate. Sensitive to TTL levels. Word Clock Output on 1x BNC connector, carries Word Clock at the same frequency as the data rate up to 96kHz.

Im not sure that I understand this correctly.

This is what I understood few folks over CA forum are doing.
1. Ref-10 is connected to MC3+USB as master clock 
2. MC3+USB's word clock out then becomes input to Network Bridge.

Ah, OK. Thanks for the clarification.
Project Eperience X Pack with Ortofon Rondo Red MC, Oppo BDP 105D, 2 x Sonos Connect, QNAP HS251+ NAS with 2 X 6TB Western Digital Red, Mac 5K 32GB running Lifetime Roon, iPad Pro 12.9" for remote control.  Etalon Ethernet Isolator, Devialet 440 Pro CI, Sonus faber Olympica ll with Isoacoustics Gaia ll feet, Auralic Taurus Mkll headphone amp.Denon AH-D5000, Sennheiser HD600 and HD800 with Cardas cable,  Van Den Hul The First Ultimate and Crystal interconnects, Furutech power cables, GSP Audio Spatia speaker cable.
South Coast England
Reply
(28-Apr-2018, 12:51)Confused Wrote: I had decided that I would not update this thread until I had firmer conclusions as to what was happening with my system and if I was indeed keeping the SOtM kit.  However, as @sam1000 has asked the question, I will try to answer, and give a general update while I am at it.

The last two weeks have been incredibly busy for me, so I have not had much time with my system at all, this is a little frustrating because what I need to do more than anything is just spend more time with some general listening.  

First to answer sam100's specific question.  The answer is I really don't know!  As things stand I am in the curious situation where I have added some kit to my system, the kit appears to be superior to what replaced it, but I no longer like my system as much as I did before.  Very strange!  I have many theories:

1.  My system is a little out of balance tonally, this was something that did not bother too much until adding the SOtM kit.  The extra transparency and accuracy of the SOtM kit in the mids and highs have somehow made the pre-existing problem more prominent, to the point it irritates me so much that I am no longer enjoying the other goodness in my system.

2.  Somehow the SOtM kit does not suit my system, does not work with the Blades or my ears or something.  

3.  Maybe the SOtM kit is not as good as everyone makes it out to be, and this is why I don't like it.

4.  A sub-theory of all the above, is maybe a bit of fine tuning is needed, perhaps replacing the sMS-500 with two Paul Hynes SR4's is all that is needed to take the annoying edge off the highs.  (If anyone out there wants to buy a nearly new sPS-500 with £160 copper "Y" cable, send me a PM!  It might be on eBay soon, so grab it while you can!)

Last weekend I had a few hours spare and started experimenting again with REW and room correction.  I did actually manage to make a convolution and load it into Roon, but I am at a level where I can do things but I am not at all confident I am doing things right.  My aim was to dial out any system imbalance, and hence give myself a better idea of which of the 4 points above is most likely correct, or more specifically if point 1 is correct.  With room speaker interaction issues dialed out to a degree, would the SOtM kit start to sing?

Frankly, I am now sick to death of messing about with kit, REW and all the rest of it.  I just want to get back to enjoying music again!  So having wasted yet more time last weekend I reached a conclusion as to my next move.  I think I have now become very competent at taking measurements with REW, here I am confident that I know exactly what I am doing.  As a mini update here, I reobtained my UMIK-1 calibration file.  It is designated as a 90° file, so thanks to the input from @alandbush & @thumb5, I am now confident that the upwards microphone orientation is correct.  Previously I suspected this was giving the best results, but it is so nice to confirm and be sure.  So, I have REW measurements cracked.  A few hours actually trying to make room correction convolutions and much reading on the subject, I realised that to learn to do this properly, I mean really get it right, would take for more time than I could afford.  I then thought of Thierry and his Home Audio Fidelity service.  This looked like an answer, I can do the measurements, no problem, then let someone who genuinely knows what he is doing with room correction do the really clever stuff.  Armed with Thierry's convolutions, I am hoping that I can get back to making sense of my system and maybe then evaluate the SOtM kit properly.

I made contact with Thierry last week and sent him some of the REW stuff I have done to date, he was very quick to respond and very helpfull.  This morning I had a quiet hour or so, I have made the various left / right measurements per his instructions, and sent them off.  Time will tell how this one works out!

sam100 mentioned the dCS Network Bridge.  To answer the specific question, I have not tried it, but it does interest me as it is one product I know I could borrow for audition.  From what I have heard, it does benefit from running from a decent master clock, so in my case I could use the REF10 with the MC3+USB which could provide a decent clock signal to the dCS, this might work quite well.  I had originally decided that I did not want the dCS, because I wanted something compatible with HQPlayer.  However, if start to conclude that points 2 or 3 above might be in play, I will revisit this option.  In fact, however Thierry's magic HAF filters work out, it would be interesting to try the Network Bridge just for comparison, but one thing at a time.

In other news, the postman has just arrived with some new hifi kit that I have bought!  One of these:



This is actually the supply for the new UpTone Audio LPS-2, but you can use it with the LPS-1 that I have powering my network switch.  This features a new 'ground mod', which eliminates some high frequency noise that the old Meanwell 'energiser' suffered from.  Maybe this will make all the difference and give me audiophile joy?  It only cost £20 from VortexBox, so worth a shot.

May be because the SoMT adding extra resolution on top of the Devialet? Because I think Devialet not warm sounding amp, its bit sharp/bright, it is OK if the speaker matched well. I found this in my system, when I upgraded the speaker, it break the balance... sometimes too much resolution is not a good thing.
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