Dual mono with REL Subwoofer

[PeppaPig]

I wondering have you ever compare one sub and two subs in your system?

If you unplug one, how much difference between the two configuration?

If two subs is better, how much better? Worth the extra cost?

IMHO, I would rather buy 1 "good" sub than 2 lesser ones ... 

With REL, when you are dealing with their Reference category products, trust me - they're truly REFERENCE quality & they play the game at the cutting edge of the technology !

What a G1 will do for you, the lesser S5 SHO PAIR can't compete with it ... 

I will strongly recommend to buy 1 G1 sub. It will change your conception of what a really good super-highend sub can do. You need to take a lot of pains to set it up correctly for it to blend-in seamlessly with your Main speakers. Generally, almost 95% users setup their sub with increased loudness but that is incorrect. When you play your music, and if there is 20-40 Hz content, the sub quietly comes-in and does its job ... the user will feel the low frequency air in the room ... 

Yes, you'll have to work around on the placement by initially placing the Sub on a portable dolly and moving it around the room while its playing and work around to find an amicable position in your room where it disappears yet sonically profoundly does its job. You will need time & patience to dial the sub into your system properly. 

Why did Richard Lord (Founder & Chief Designer of REL) sell me a Pair of his best subs - Studio when I was only interested in buying 1 Sub ?

A: Richard Lord explained that when bass is played with correct pitch, speed & articulation, our human ear can even start to detect mono bass vs. stereophonic bass ... in other words, even very low bass image & soundstage. Plus, with 2 subs, if there are many room abnormalities, one has a better scope to work around it to cancel off some of the detrimental standing waves etc. creating issues. 

The G1 is a much-much higher category sub when compared to the S3 SHO & S5 SHO. I strongly recommend it.

What are your main speakers ?

Thanks for sharing.

My room size is 4 meter in width and 9 meter in length, opened space connected to kitchen area, in a L shape. Height is about 2.6 meters. The G1 is so big, If I purchase G1, it will not be able to put behind my main speaker, no way at all, the only place I can put is in front of LEFT or RIGHT main speaker, and I have no other way to put them, so if it doesn’t work well in front of LEFT/RIGHT speaker, then it will be wasted of money. And down the track if I want to have 2 sub, I will not able to because I cannot put two sub on each side, taking too much space, wife will not approve

So I am thinking to get the S5 Carbon, which uses the same driver unit as the reference one, 20% more power, same size a S5. REL called it reference sound in smaller size. With the size of S5, I might be able to put it behind the speakers, if I move my speaker slightly forward.

So do you have 1 or 2 subs? Do you heard significant improvement from the 2nd sub?

And have you ever hear S5 SHO/S5 Carbon? How it compare with G1?

One last question, how long is the High Input Cable and Power Cable come with the REL sub?

Thanks


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[f1eng]

I have a REL Studio from the original company. I configure my O d'A with a monoed bass signal from the master and use the phono output. It works correctly.
The idea of getting the flavour of the amplifier using the speaker outputs is moot with an amplifier as low distortion as the Devialet IMO.

This way may add extra load to your OdA?

Sorry for the delay,I don't come here very often and have as a matter of course disabled all notifications on all my devices...
I am not sure what you mean by "add extra load".
 The method I am using is the bog standard subwoofer outlet provision in the Configurator. It works for all Devialets afaik whether stereo or dual mono. The adjustment available is level and a filter can be set, but I don't relying on the REL filters which are set at the lowest cutoff frequency since the -6dB point of my speakers is specified as 26Hz.

[PeppaPig]

I have a REL Studio from the original company. I configure my O d'A with a monoed bass signal from the master and use the phono output. It works correctly.
The idea of getting the flavour of the amplifier using the speaker outputs is moot with an amplifier as low distortion as the Devialet IMO.

This way may add extra load to your OdA?

Sorry for the delay,I don't come here very often and have as a matter of course disabled all notifications on all my devices...
I am not sure what you mean by "add extra load".
 The method I am using is the bog standard subwoofer outlet provision in the Configurator. It works for all Devialets afaik whether stereo or dual mono. The adjustment available is level and a filter can be set, but I don't relying on the REL filters which are set at the lowest cutoff frequency since the -6dB point of my speakers is specified as 26Hz.

any reason you don’t prefer to use the High Level Input?

[Dan]

Has anyone that uses subwoofers with their Dev ever compared the sound quality with the subs engaged vrs just using SAM (assuming your speakers are SAM’d). I am considering getting subwoofers (have never used them) and currently use SAM at 35%. SAM at 100% seemed at times like too much bass. Am a little concerned that dual woofers might be too much bass also in my 11’ X 13’ room.

[marcor]

Has anyone that uses subwoofers with their Dev ever compared the sound quality with the subs engaged vrs just using SAM (assuming your speakers are SAM’d). I am considering getting subwoofers (have never used them) and currently use SAM at 35%. SAM at 100% seemed at times like too much bass. Am a little concerned that dual woofers might be too much bass also in my 11’ X 13’ room.

I did. I found that for certain tracks the SAM 100% was too boomy for my speakers (SF Amati Futura) but I haven't found the same with the Sub. Not sure why, perhaps it could be because I can control more carefully the cut off level or change the volume of the sub independently, making sure it doesn't overpower the music.
Don't know exactly but it just sounds better. 
my 2 cents.


M

[Dan]

@marcor Thanks - was hoping that was the case.

[PeppaPig]

Has anyone that uses subwoofers with their Dev ever compared the sound quality with the subs engaged vrs just using SAM (assuming your speakers are SAM’d). I am considering getting subwoofers (have never used them) and currently use SAM at 35%. SAM at 100% seemed at times like too much bass. Am a little concerned that dual woofers might be too much bass also in my 11’ X 13’ room.

With dual woofer you can reduce each woofer volume to half, and it should increase the speed. Also it fixes the bass gap. But this is theory, not sure in real life how much it will help. I am still waiting ppl to confirm one vs two subs’ difference.

[martynbaker1]

Hey guys,

So I’ve noticed a few people mention about positioning of the sub and thought I’d share my experience with a single G2 via pre-out in a 4x5m room - might be helpful for experimenting if not all transferable info.

So firstly a single G2 pressurises the room pretty much anywhere I placed it which is crazy! When placed near the front right corner the bloated boom was too much. I don’t get how corner loading can work well for music - it lost all the texture and richness for me. Essentially I had to move it slightly in front of my Raidho’s and further into room.

The boom had gone but it still sounded a bit muddy or out of time.

As well as for bass loading, the reason subs are placed behind the speakers is for phase/timing (even if RELs have a really fast crossover, there is still a slight delay). Also Raidho’s have to be the fastest speakers ive heard so timing was noticeable.

So next thing I changed was speaker delay without effecting the pre out in the configurator. A big plus for the Devialet over almost any other amplification option. I ended on 3ms. I know that doesn’t sound a lot but it’s what changed me from regretting the sub purchase to loving it.

My sub is placed to the inside of the right speaker roughly aimed past my left ear. There is no sense of direction for anything below about 30hz. Having the sub to the right ensures it’s a bit more forgiving of direction when you get 30-40hz as most orchestras’ bass or double bass instruments are to the right. Interestingly, when I fired the sub directly into the opposite diagonal back left corner, the bass exaggeration was actually on my left ear, not the right side where the sub was placed.

Something I’d already done (to tame the Raidho bass) was install 2 tube traps in corners behind speakers. This did almost nothing for tuning the frequency response of the room (which was a real shame though achieved in Roon below 200hz), it did however dramatically decrease the decay of bass notes in the room making the bass so much quicker and tighter. This was very easy to confirm in room eq with the spectrogram.

As far as crossover and volume goes, I’ve nothing to add here as everyone else has covered this well. I would say it’s easier to start with everything too loud and high and tune it down, rather than starting quiet and turning it up. Trust ear over measurements. Be patient.

I’d be very careful with using tools like REQ to make the final decision on levels. It’s a helpful starting point but tuning with ears gave a much more satisfying response. I definitely would not use a PEQ in players like Roon to dial things in at the crossover point of the sub/speakers. As it effectively turned down a bit of the sub and speakers and lost some ‘slam’. Even if you use RoomEQ to measure, I’d only use the REL controls to dial in at the crossover.

And is it worth getting a sub? 100% yes. For me it just made everything else so real. You don’t know what you’ve got till it’s gone, and when I turned the sub off to compare, I wondered what had a happened to the music! Yet that’s how I’d been listening to music for years up until the REL G1. A great purchase.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pim]

Lots of talk about size in the thread. Has anyone thought of JL Audio instead of REL? They use more powerful amplifiers so they can get away with a smaller footprint box. If I were shopping, both REL and JL would be on my list.

[PeppaPig]

Hey guys,

So I’ve noticed a few people mention about positioning of the sub and thought I’d share my experience with a single G2 via pre-out in a 4x5m room - might be helpful for experimenting if not all transferable info.

So firstly a single G2 pressurises the room pretty much anywhere I placed it which is crazy! When placed near the front right corner the bloated boom was too much.  I don’t get how corner loading can work well for music - it lost all the texture and richness for me. Essentially I had to move it slightly in front of my Raidho’s and further into room.

The boom had gone but it still sounded a bit muddy or out of time.

As well as for bass loading, the reason subs are placed behind the speakers is for phase/timing (even if RELs have a really fast crossover, there is still a slight delay). Also Raidho’s have to be the fastest speakers ive heard so timing was noticeable.

So next thing I changed was speaker delay without effecting the pre out in the configurator. A big plus for the Devialet over almost any other amplification option. I ended on 3ms. I know that doesn’t sound a lot but it’s what changed me from regretting the sub purchase to loving it.

My sub is placed to the inside of the right speaker roughly aimed past my left ear. There is no sense of direction for anything below about 30hz. Having the sub to the right ensures it’s a bit more forgiving of direction when you get 30-40hz as most orchestras’ bass or double bass instruments are to the right. Interestingly, when I fired the sub directly into the opposite diagonal back left corner, the bass exaggeration was actually on my left ear, not the right side where the sub was placed.

Something I’d already done (to tame the Raidho bass) was install 2 tube traps in corners behind speakers. This did almost nothing for tuning the frequency response of the room (which was a real shame though achieved in Roon below 200hz), it did however dramatically decrease the decay of bass notes in the room making the bass so much quicker and tighter. This was very easy to confirm in room eq with the spectrogram.

As far as crossover and volume goes, I’ve nothing to add here as everyone else has covered this well. I would say it’s easier to start with everything too loud and high and tune it down, rather than starting quiet and turning it up. Trust ear over measurements. Be patient.

I’d be very careful with using tools like REQ to make the final decision on levels. It’s a helpful starting point but tuning with ears gave a much more satisfying response. I definitely would not use a PEQ in players like Roon to dial things in at the crossover point of the sub/speakers. As it effectively turned down a bit of the sub and speakers and lost some ‘slam’. Even if you use RoomEQ to measure, I’d only use the REL controls to dial in at the crossover.

And is it worth getting a sub? 100% yes. For me it just made everything else so real. You don’t know what you’ve got till it’s gone, and when I turned the sub off to compare, I wondered what had a happened to the music! Yet that’s how I’d been listening to music for years up until the REL G1. A great purchase.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi Mart, thanks for sharing your experience. In my case I have to put the sub behind the main speaker and also very near the corner, I am a bit worry when my S5 arrived it will sound boomy after reading your post.

By the way do you mind to share a screenshot of your Devialet configurator? how you set that 3m delay? Your G2 has a carbon cone, should be extremely fast in response. Surprise 3ms makes you feel the big differences.