Expert Pro sound quality

[moreno1973]

They want your money before the end of the year. That doesn't mean they will do the upgrade before the end of the year.  They just want the Christmas bonus.

+100:-)

[jpg11111]

I have got him back and it takes three weeks. At first i was schocked about the condition of the 250 pro. The wheel of the remote has a scratch and the backkcover a dent. I made a ticket to Devialet. Since three weeks i'm waiting for an answer.
So what about the SQ. First the Pros: deeper and more controlled bass, more details, wider soundstage, all also at lower volumes.
But there are also disappointing experiences. Voices, especially female voices lost the  magic. I heard song after song and and i don't feel touched. It sounded clear with a beautiful bass and soundstage, but my D-Premier had a magic in voices that the 250 pro can't deliver. I tried Anna Calvi, Ben Caplan, Bill Fay, Bon Iver, Joni Mitchell, Sara K, James Taylor, Joana Newsom, Natalie Merchant, Leonard Cohen and so on, but no real feelings. I miss the warm character of my Premier, but no way back.
Three days ago i changed my setup. I moved my speakers, i changed the digital input from aes to cinch and used sam in different percent. Now i got better high frequencies, to much bass, 3 d sounstage but still no emotions like i had before. I don't feel satisfied with hardware and sound.
Sorry for this, but it's the sad truth. I'm thinking about a change to Accuphase or Mcintosh.

Have to say i had a similar experience. The cover at the back was a bit rough underneath (although ok on top) and the remote had a chip in the wheel. The unit i send back was perfect as it was only a few months old.
I raised a ticket and after sending a few pictures they are sending a new remote out. Will see........

Just thought I would update you all. New remote just turned up courtesy of UPS... spot on service really, can't fault anything.

[iamwappie]

Glad to hear you were properly serviced. Today I received my replacement remote after 5 weeks of waiting and ticket creation... I a bit less enthousiastic

[Damon]

D120 to D220 Pro Upgrade Comments

I'm posting this note in this existing thread; it could be a new thread, but I'm always reluctant to start new threads. Reading Pim's opening post, however, I think this is a reasonable place to start. Note that I expect and hope that others who've upgraded other models will keep this tread alive for a while. I also hope that this post and others will be helpful to others who are considering the move from the D120 to D220 Pro. In that sense, I'm writing what I would have liked to read about the amp upgrade while trying to make that decision. I apologize for repetitions of comments or opinions. And the likely length of this post (very Canadian of me).

Background audio note: I had ss gear years ago. Then in the mid '80's, I moved to tube amps from McIntosh, Leak, Dynaco (modified) and Eico. Eventually in about 2004, I went to Naim. There I had entry level amps and streamers. The D120 came in February 2015. I mention this history only to give a bit of a picture about my listening preferences. In general, I always prefer a system that gives me all the information. I want to hear everything that is on the record... in the music, even at the expense of ultimate refinement or politeness.
(End of dull autobiographical diversion).

As I've written before, I felt the D120 was revelatory; the quietness, clarity, bass control, detail retrieval.... all the stuff you all know already. I debated the upgrade for quite a while as it is a considerable cost for me and my budget... perhaps even for my interest level. But I ordered the upgrade and received the D220 P on Wed, December 7.

Executive Summary: the D220 P is remarkable; better than the D120 in every way, and to a greater degree than I thought possible. The differences are dramatic and they were apparent immediately. For comparison, I would say that the change from the D120 to the D220 Pro is as great as the change from a Naim UnitiQute to the D120. There are some qualifications as well in respect of the change in sound quality, and those are important to note.

The changes, perhaps in the order that they struck me upon first listening.

The bass is amazing, in every way that matters to me. The attack yes, but more importantly, the fullness, fatness and roundness of the notes. Bass impact is easy; revealing all the bass tones much less so, and the D220P does this extraordinarily well. The bass is 'organic' (as Wdw noted) and tonally sweet. As though they stuffed a hugely competant tube amp in for the bottom end. I can pick out bass lines and follow them more easily than before, and it was very good before.

Immediately apparent was the sense of space and separation between the various voices and instruments and tones. Remarkable

Though I'm not a 'soundstage' nut (ex-Naim guy, remember?), the staging of the image is huge-really big. Side to side and front to back. Woodstock commented that the soundstage on the D250P was basically too big, and I can see where this reaction would come from. My speakers are very close to the front (back? ) wall and bottom ported, so this soundstage is, for me, wonderful.

In the same way, the sound is more forward. That is, more assertive, farther out in the room.

I always loved the D120 for it's clarity and detail retrieval. In this regard, the D220 Pro stomps it. The micro-details volume, breathing, fingers on strings, slight variations in how things are plucked, or hit, or strummed. The well-worn cliche´about hearing things we've never heard before.... spoiler alert: it is true. True for material I've know for years, and my own recordings. I love it when I can hear 'all the way around a note' and this ability is hugely increased. And it reveals so many fine subtleties and expressions that I know I would miss if I were go back to the D120 This topic could be very long, but I'll resist.

As others have noted in other posts, the low-volume sound quality is demonstrably better. This is something that others felt was inadequate before. I did not, but without a doubt, music from the 220 Pro is much more complete at low volumes than the D120. And I am, in general, about 5 or 10 db below previous volume settings. I will likely turn down the default start up volume from -40 to -50. Clearly, that is system and room dependant, but the difference is there.

I mentioned that there are some qualifications, and these are important too.

I think that the sound is better across the spectrum with the D220 Pro. However, I sometimes find the treble a bit sharp, or aggressive. This varies from track to track, so may be a function of the source file, but I will say that at this point, I have the treble turned down by 1.5 db. The midrange is still there, but perhaps it is not so different, in terms of forwardness, as the bass and treble ends of the spectrum. I also remember that the D120 changed after about 60 hours, losing a slightly shinny, metallic sheen on the treble. I admit that I do hope this happens with the new amp as well. Otherwise, I would have to count this as a sonic aspect of the amp that I may not be very fond of. The midrange is clearer and better revealed, but, it is also competing with much more competent bass, and a more assertive high end. I did sometimes feel the vocals seemed recessed, but I would also say that this is likely in the recordings, rather than in the amp.

As Wdw noted, I think this amp reveals upstream and downstream flaws, perhaps to a fault. My system is all channeled through an unmodified Sonos connect (optical to Dev). I know that this not the finest source, and the Pro may be exposing this component as simply too coarse and grainy. Terry London of Hometheaterreview.com reviewed the Lawrence Audio Violin SE; peruse that if you want a sense of the sonic signature of the loudspeakers.

Finally, the Pro is, in most ways, more of what I want in an amp. It is not, at least not yet to me, more 'tubey' sounding. Perhaps the bass is, but overall, I think that this amp is further away from what some tube amps do. Or perhaps, are not capable of doing (GuillaumeB's new toy excepted). What I'm getting at is that the Pro is more musical, in some ways, but might not be considered more musical by others. It is more different from other amps, rather than less. Bear in mind, my exposure to other equipment is very limited, so don't take me too seriously on that opinion.

It is more musical, in that it reveals more of the music, with less effort than the D120. Bigger space, more separation, more extension. However, I can accept some of the comments of others who simply don't like this sonic presentation as much as the Expert series. It is different, and won't suit all tastes. It is more Magico than Harbeth, perhaps?

I've deleted a long list of material that I listened to, as it really doesn't matter. I hope that the treble softens a bit in time, and I'll possibly start looking at a Sonos Connect mod from Wyred4Sound, or a change of speaker cables. As prompted by one other, I'll go back to AIR as well. On balance I'm very pleased that I upgraded, and if you have a D120, and are pondering the upgrade, I assure you the change is very big.

Ok, enough from me. Now to change my signature....

[Womaz]

Excellent detailed post Damon. Thanks for sharing your thoughts

[Herman]

great post Damon!
Most of your experiencees are close to mine.
the fact, that th D220pro is about 3db louder than the D120 was may have forced you to turn it a bit back. I also use -50db as safe volume.

enjoy your new toy!

Karsten

[Pim]

Nice write up Damon.

You say that you want to hear everything in the music but then don't like it when you find the treble a bit harsh on some recordings. That's sort of where I am. You want to hear ALL the music but wish the recording was a bit better. That was one of my main reasons to go with Devialet; you can adjust the bass and treble when needed/wanted. On top of that there's of course the possibility of fixing some of this with a better source. I'm sure a better source will do at least some of the trick. It's worth a try. So I hope we'll be reading about your source upgrade here soon.

Cheers,

Pim

P.S. love the cat. Is that an F117 nighthawk flying over him?

[Damon]

Thanks guys. That was a higher word-count than usual. Just had to get it all out.

I'm amazed that even internet radio is improved.

Pim; you are correct about 'wanting it all' and then reacting to really getting it all. I don't want to embark on a lifetime of gear shopping or swapping, but the source is clearly critical. But we value the ability of the Sonus to get so many streaming services. I like Tidal, and had a subscription, but their catalogue is too limited. We listen to streaming sources most of the time and I sit and do more attentive listening about 10% of the time. Our disc collection is just not very large. So, suggestions welcome!

I will also play with the treble adjustment frequency, and will try AIR again. I haven't used it in over a year, so it will take a bit of re-learning. I haven't fired up the turntable yet, so another project for this weekend.

We have snow here on the coast. Sort of unusual but charming, in a wintery way. A good excuse to stay indoors.

Oh, the pic is of a cat that was on the dock where we tied up last summer when sailing in Croatia. He looks nothing like me.

[Axel]

As Wdw noted, I think this amp reveals upstream and downstream flaws, perhaps to a fault. My system is all channeled through an unmodified Sonos connect (optical to Dev). I know that this not the finest source, and the Pro may be exposing this component as simply too coarse and grainy. Terry London of Hometheaterreview.com reviewed the Lawrence Audio Violin SE; peruse that if you want a sense of the sonic signature of the loudspeakers.

Great post Damon, very informative. Thanks for sharing!

I'm sure we can all agree that the Sonos Connect is not the greatest source, but I always warm my amps and ears up with a spot of internet radio, which as you know, carries hundreds of different stations, all easily accessible via the Sonos.  I usually listen to Radio Paradise which often amazes me because of the manner in which the Sonos/Devialet combination treats it. Although it's a low bitrate stream (not sure of the bitrate, but higher than some) it sounds fantastic.

I hope that your 220 continues to improve as it beds in. Mine's been back for seven weeks now, and I swear it's still improving. Could just be me though.

[woodstock]

Thanks guys. That was a higher word-count than usual. Just had to get it all out.

I'm amazed that even internet radio is improved.

Pim; you are correct about 'wanting it all' and then reacting to really getting it all. I don't want to embark on a lifetime of gear shopping or swapping, but the source is clearly critical. But we value the ability of the Sonus to get so many streaming services. I like Tidal, and had a subscription, but their catalogue is too limited. We listen to streaming sources most of the time and I sit and do more attentive listening about 10% of the time. Our disc collection is just not very large. So, suggestions welcome!

I will also play with the treble adjustment frequency, and will try AIR again. I haven't used it in over a year, so it will take a bit of re-learning. I haven't fired up the turntable yet, so another project for this weekend.

We have snow here on the coast. Sort of unusual but charming, in a wintery way. A good excuse to stay indoors.

Oh, the pic is of a cat that was on the dock where we tied up last summer when sailing in Croatia. He looks nothing like me.

Hi Damon. West coast? Same here. I'm In Kits If you ever want to connect. As  to my new 250 Pro, I'm still undecided. It's a very smooth clean picture but I'm still missing an emotional connection that I had with the older model. It's just a personal preference.