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Dirac and room correction software
Thanks SwissBear, that's a very helpful post. To make sure I understand: time domain correction is the main difference between a full room correction approach and what you might call "just" equalisation. So if I wanted to get rid of a couple of room modes and flatten out or tilt the frequency response that could be done with a wider range of software, but only the ones you list provide the time domain correction. I saw in another thread that you used Acourate - is that still your choice?
Wilson Benesch Full Circle, Sonos ZP90 (Cullen modified), Devialet 440 Pro, Kaiser Chiara
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(08-Jan-2017, 11:19)thumb5 Wrote: Thanks SwissBear, that's a very helpful post.  To make sure I understand: time domain correction is the main difference between a full room correction approach and what you might call "just" equalisation.  So if I wanted to get rid of a couple of room modes and flatten out or tilt the frequency response that could be done with a wider range of software, but only the ones you list provide the time domain correction.  I saw in another thread that you used Acourate - is that still your choice?

Yes your reformulation is correct.

There might be other options I do not know of. The fact is that I tried and used the four options I recommended and can witness that all four work appropriately and provide accurate time domain correction.

As far as Acourate is concerned, I am still using it and I recommend it. But as I mentioned in the post you are referring to, I am also using REW/rePhase. I tend to have a small bias in favor of the latter, as it gives more freedom in terms of deciding what you want to correct and how you want to do it. But Acourate remains for me a very viable option, which offers, at a reasonable cost, a very professional correction both in the frequency and the time domain, without the hassle of the playback options of Dirac. As you are interested in Roon, HQPlayer probably is a good option to consider too. And HQPlayer makes a fantastic use of the impulses produced by Acourate (both are working in 64bits).

I have a µ-rendu connected to my Devialet through a Mutec MC-3+USB. Using HQPlayer to play the music to the µ-rendu is an absolutely great solution for me, as it allows me to embark the room correction as well.
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Thanks again. I feel a bit guilty for hi-jacking hifi_swlon's posts, but I'm sure he'll find your advice interesting and helpful too.
Wilson Benesch Full Circle, Sonos ZP90 (Cullen modified), Devialet 440 Pro, Kaiser Chiara
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Haha if that was open to all, I might just take you up in that swissbear! Smile

How do you deal with multiple measurements outside of Dirac? I liked that it took a hero measurement and then additional measurements over a wider space do things don't get over corrected or sound worse outside of the sweet spot. I don't see much info on that approach with other solutions. Maybe the way they calculate the filters applies some logic their?

There's no hijacking here, we're all learning Smile

Also I sense we won't necessarily need HQPlayer with Roon 1.3 Smile

Roon lifetime > Mac mini (Core) > Allo DigiOne > BNC ( >AES via Neutrik) > Devialet 250 Pro > PMC fact.8
 >>> Fingers crossed for a RoonReady Core Infinity and the death of AIR...... here's waiting for October (or November, or December....  Big Grin ) <<<
- London, UK -

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(08-Jan-2017, 13:15)Hifi_swlon Wrote: Haha if that was open to all, I might just take you up in that swissbear! Smile

How do you deal with multiple measurements outside of Dirac?  I liked that it took a hero measurement and then additional measurements over a wider space do things don't get over corrected or sound worse outside of the sweet spot. I don't see much info on that approach with other solutions. Maybe the way they calculate the filters applies some logic their?

There's no hijacking here, we're all learning Smile

Also I sense we won't necessarily need HQPlayer with Roon 1.3 Smile

Hi Hifi_swlon,

If I can help just tell me how Wink

Here is how I addressed the pb of multiple measurements with REW/rePhase:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way...ost4920173
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way...l-142.html

With Acourate, it is a little more delicate as the software expects the mic to be at the same distance of each speaker. So you can only make measurements on this line.
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(08-Jan-2017, 13:44)SwissBear Wrote: ...
With Acourate, it is a little more delicate as the software expects the mic to be at the same distance of each speaker. So you can only make measurements on this line.

Ah, that's an interesting point. When I tried Dirac it seemed to cope pretty well with the fact that my listening position isn't on the line midway between the speakers - in fact it worked out a delay for the nearest speaker that matched what I'd estimated would be needed.
Wilson Benesch Full Circle, Sonos ZP90 (Cullen modified), Devialet 440 Pro, Kaiser Chiara
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Hi,

with the new release of Roon that include the DSP engine with Convolution I thought to give it a go and see if I can improve my set up.
I know that are very early days but has anyone tried to use Roon with DSP/Convolution?
I just ordered a UMIK-1 and read through this topic. It seems that if I want to use my (daughter's) mac to gather the data I can only use REW as all the other software I have seen are only developed for windows and I don't want to go through the hassle of installing a dual boot or parallels.
Dirac seems to have a version for Mac but my understanding is that the data generated cannot be used by other software, is this still the case?
So if I go down the REW route, can I use air to send the signal to the Devialet? Or USB? Or do I need to use the headphone port and connect it to an analog input on the Devialet?
I am trying to figure out what else I will need for when the Microphone arrives.

thanks a lot

Marco
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(02-Feb-2017, 23:40)marcor Wrote: Hi,

with the new release of Roon that include the DSP engine with Convolution I thought to give it a go and see if I can improve my set up.  
I know that are very early days but has anyone tried to use Roon with DSP/Convolution?
I just ordered a UMIK-1 and read through this topic. It seems that if I want to use my (daughter's) mac to gather the data I can only use REW as all the other software I have seen are only developed for windows and I don't want to go  through the hassle of installing a dual boot or parallels.
Dirac seems to have a version for Mac but my understanding is that the data generated cannot be used by other software, is this still the case?

To my knowledge, you are correct about everything above. More options if you want to spend money and run windows. (neither of which I really want to do right now)
I've tried all DSP except convolution. Its great and to be honest you can get a hell of a long way by measuring and then using REW to create parametric EQ filters, or eyeballing it based on measurements.

The trouble with all non-Dirac room correction/convolution filter generation is they're bl**dy complicated and a bit tedious to use if you;re not really interested in learning all about it. Thats where Dirac won hands down, but the inability to generate filters to be used elsewhere is a hinderance. Probably a deliberate one on their part.

(02-Feb-2017, 23:40)marcor Wrote: So if I go down the REW route, can I use air to send the signal to the Devialet?  Or USB? Or do I need to use the headphone port and connect it to an analog input on the Devialet?
I am trying to figure out what else I will need for when the Microphone arrives.

thanks a lot

Marco

In theory whatever way you used to output from Roon will still work, it just sends a modified output with the DSP calculated. So if you used to use Roon > AIR > Devialet, the same should apply. Its probably not been put through its paces yet, and I know what Roon think of AIR and how well it plays with other software

Roon lifetime > Mac mini (Core) > Allo DigiOne > BNC ( >AES via Neutrik) > Devialet 250 Pro > PMC fact.8
 >>> Fingers crossed for a RoonReady Core Infinity and the death of AIR...... here's waiting for October (or November, or December....  Big Grin ) <<<
- London, UK -

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(02-Feb-2017, 23:56)Hifi_swlon Wrote:
(02-Feb-2017, 23:40)marcor Wrote: Hi,

with the new release of Roon that include the DSP engine with Convolution I thought to give it a go and see if I can improve my set up.  
I know that are very early days but has anyone tried to use Roon with DSP/Convolution?
I just ordered a UMIK-1 and read through this topic. It seems that if I want to use my (daughter's) mac to gather the data I can only use REW as all the other software I have seen are only developed for windows and I don't want to go  through the hassle of installing a dual boot or parallels.
Dirac seems to have a version for Mac but my understanding is that the data generated cannot be used by other software, is this still the case?

To my knowledge, you are correct about everything above.  More options if you want to spend money and run windows. (neither of which I really want to do right now)
I've tried all DSP except convolution.  Its great and to be honest you can get a hell of a long way by measuring and then using REW to create parametric EQ filters, or eyeballing it based on measurements.

The trouble with all non-Dirac room correction/convolution filter generation is they're bl**dy complicated and a bit tedious to use if you;re not really interested in learning all about it.  Thats where Dirac won hands down, but the inability to generate filters to be used elsewhere is a hinderance.  Probably a deliberate one on their part.

(02-Feb-2017, 23:40)marcor Wrote: So if I go down the REW route, can I use air to send the signal to the Devialet?  Or USB? Or do I need to use the headphone port and connect it to an analog input on the Devialet?
I am trying to figure out what else I will need for when the Microphone arrives.

thanks a lot

Marco

In theory whatever way you used to output from Roon will still work, it just sends a modified output with the DSP calculated.  So if you used to use Roon > AIR > Devialet, the same should apply.  Its probably not been put through its paces yet, and I know what Roon think of AIR and how well it plays with other software
Thanks Hifi_swlon. To be honest Roon through ethernet to Devialet has worked flawlessly for me so far. Still would be so much better if Devialet would embrace the Roon revolution....

I have expressed myself badly in one of my questions. I was wondering if with REW, while doing the sampling, it is possible to send the sound to the Devialet through AIR or if I need to find some long cables to connect the headphones output of my laptop to the analog of the devialet. Once the analysis is done I immagine that Roon will process the signal and send it to Devialet through ethernet in the usual way.

Thanks

Marco
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Dont know the answer to that one. I'd imagine its not ideal as REW is trying to keep tabs n the clock for what its sending out and what its getting back. AIR will have buffers/delays and I guess there;s a chance it reports this back to the system, but not sure.

Someone will probably chime in now and say it works fine. Im just guessing, but Id plump for a cable. I bought a long USB extender for my umik-1 on amazon, pretty cheap. Does the job. But the SQ from the mic is appalling!!!



*JOKE*


Its absolutely fine. Smile

Roon lifetime > Mac mini (Core) > Allo DigiOne > BNC ( >AES via Neutrik) > Devialet 250 Pro > PMC fact.8
 >>> Fingers crossed for a RoonReady Core Infinity and the death of AIR...... here's waiting for October (or November, or December....  Big Grin ) <<<
- London, UK -

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