Poll: Can I hear differences between cables?
This poll is closed.
Yes
77.67%
160 77.67%
No
22.33%
46 22.33%
Total 206 vote(s) 100%
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CABLE SURVEY
#1
Given the very interesting debate going on in Tweaker's Corner I thought it would be really interesting to poll our members on whether they can hear differences between cables with the Devialet. So digital cables, analogue interconnects and speaker cables. Please keep the actual discussion going in Tweaker's Corner though. Thanks! Smile

Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

O d'A no.63, Absolare Integrated Signature, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-six, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Transparent Ref XL digital cables, Transparent XL Gen 5 speaker cables, Ansuz Diamond Darkz, Shunyata mains cable prototypes, Shunyata Denali D6000/S, Shunyata Venom RCA, Audioquest Diamond Ethernet, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, AQVOX Audiophile High-End Network Switch, sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD & MCRU LPS
UK
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#2
(09-Jul-2014, 10:09)GuillaumeB Wrote: Given the very interesting debate going on in Tweaker's Corner I thought it would be really interesting to poll our members on whether they can hear differences between cables with the Devialet. So digital cables, analogue interconnects and speaker cables. Please keep the actual discussion going in Tweaker's Corner though. Thanks! Smile

Guillaume

Guillaume,

The question might be to black&white. We did some extensive blind tests in a recording studio of the Bavarian public radio station and this involved my devialet and different speakers. it was a two day session involving a local Munich Highend dealer (who doesn't want to be named, the two most senior recording engineers they have, a music professor and two young talented musicians. A couple of interns did the magic behind the curtain, an mathematician was there for the statistics .

We had the following categories:

Power cables (from 5€-2800€):

We did not find any statistical relevance for tonal changes. Even introducing a isotek super titan didn't showed any repeatable result,


USB cable (10-900€):

Only on very expensive cable which didn't follow the USB spec's measured had a negative influence to the chain.


XLR analogue interconnects (not tested with the devialet)

Subtle differences as expected, however the most neutral one was a plain Mogami Broadcast wit Neutrik interconnects. Comment of the head of sound engineering: we do most of the recordings with a couple 100meters of this cable attaché two microfons. What are you guys expecting from 4 meters high level interconnects in you Highend gear.

One of the interns will write his master thesis in sound engineering on this test and I will share it as soon as it is available.

It changed me from an doubting Thomas to a firm non believer in Highend cabling.

Gruss
Markus
Bricasti M1 SE DAC -> Pass labs XP30 & XP25 phono -> Bryston B28sst2 -> Sonus Faber Amati Futura  -> JRiver MC 21 -> Synology NAS / Quboz  - Denon DP 7000 SME 5012
D1000pro -> Magico V2 -> Fanless NUC i5 (Broadwell) -> Jriver MC 21/ Bauer DPS3i / Lyra Kleos
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#3
I'm a little confused Mka - you mention you did hear subtle differences, and that one cable had a negative effect.
Devialet 200, Melco N1A, Rega RP6/Exact, Raidho C-1.1, grounding boxes.
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#4
(09-Jul-2014, 10:51)Rufus McDufus Wrote: I'm a little confused Mka - you mention you did hear subtle differences, and that one cable had a negative effect.

We only hear a statistical relevant subtle difference on the cable not meeting the USB spec's
Bricasti M1 SE DAC -> Pass labs XP30 & XP25 phono -> Bryston B28sst2 -> Sonus Faber Amati Futura  -> JRiver MC 21 -> Synology NAS / Quboz  - Denon DP 7000 SME 5012
D1000pro -> Magico V2 -> Fanless NUC i5 (Broadwell) -> Jriver MC 21/ Bauer DPS3i / Lyra Kleos
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#5
I voted "Yes". I've heard differences in speaker cables, in analog interlinks and even power cables. I took my D200 to a fellow audiophile and we switched power cables. I won't use the words "Mind Blown", but the differences were pretty dramatic. I have no idea which was the more expensive cable, so no bias towards a particular priced cable.

Still, there is hearing and hearing. Personally, I don't have a problem with people not hearing a difference and saying believers suffer from the placebo effect. For me the placebo effect is a perfectly acceptable state.

Funny enough, I never heard any difference with digital interlinks (USB and ethernet). For me a 1 is a 1 and a 0 a 0.
Devialet 200 <> Bowers & Wilkins 805 Diamond <> Aurender N100 <> Clearaudio Concept MC <> Audioquest Rocket 44/Coffee USB

The Netherlands
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#6
I voted yes as I have heard clear differences between speaker cables and also between coax digital interconnects, though not between USB, power cables or ethernet cables though I've not explored those areas in any detail.

As far speaker cables are concerned its certainly possible to measure differences in electrical parameters which vary with construction and which could affect the performance of the overall system so its no surprise that they would sound different. For example, Naim recommend a certain minimum length of their own branded speaker cable with their amps in order that they remain 'stable'. As far as coax cables are concerned I think the differences may be down to how susceptible the cable is to RFI plus possibly plug construction rather than the actual wire inside.
MacBook Pro Retina OS X 10.12.4 / Linn LP12 / Devialet 200 Wilson Benesch Discovery. 
Qobuz Desktop Latest Version / Audirvana Plus 2.6.8 / A+ Remote / iTunes 12.6 / AIR 3.0.4 / Wi-Fi / FW 8.1.0 / SAM 50%
Cambridge, UK (Updated 25th April, 2017)
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#7
I have cables from very different topologies, and i can reliably tell some from others.

Regarding Speaker cables:
Kimber TC8: musical, relaxed, balanced. Moderate 3D image (8 threaded multistrands crossing + and -). "Full" sound.
Goertz MI2: more 3D, less relaxed.(2 parallel flat copper cables, one on top of the other and very close to each other- like an extended capacitor)
Mapleshade double helix: seems like a hotrod car: more extended bass and treble, much more deep and wide 3D image; but not relaxed at all. In high RFI area, it can be tiring to listen for extended periods. "Bare" sound. (4 solid, thin conductors, twisted in a special pattern 2 by 2, and intended to keep both couples very separated)

Not able to pick differences between Ethernet or USB cables (though none is special)

Regarding power cables (and compared with plain power cable)
Mapleshade clearview power cable: more extended in bass and treble, but not relaxing. Some days, depending who knows what, completely unlistenable. Others, giving the best music ever (normally late night listening)
Eupen VMVB (3 closely twisted single strand 2.5 sqmm, embedded in a ferrite-loaded compound and shielded, DIY finished). Much more relaxed than either standard and mapleshade. Much more "silent": black background. Can listen for extended periods without fatigue. Mids are more pronounced than with the mapleshade: a more full sound. This material was bought directly from a normal "cable" factory by the reel, where it is sold for labs that need to isolate measurement equipment from RFI. Later I have seen that some lower material made by the same company has been sold by Audusa in the UK and by JPS labs (with an oter sheath as Digital AC cable)

I think that in current RFI-heavy environments, the ability to pick or avoid RFI can be heard, since our equipment is not linear and RFI from different sources can eventually inter-modulate down to the audio band. As well noise can eventually reduce headroom of amps too. (And RFI can be external or internally generated)
Oslo: sources: Mac Mini/Itunes/Audirvana,  glassfiber toslink/Mapleshade clearview USB to D200;
Double helix to Gallo Strada 2 with mapleshade stands, TR3 subwoofer.

Spain: Oppo 95 vacuumstate modded, Kimber select 1021, Linn Classik Movie Di to Gallo Solos through Goertz Python cable


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#8
I tested a lot of cables over the years and heared more differences in power and speaker cabels than internconnects or digital cables (high versus low power/impedance).
As my devialet is just above a floor outlet and requires only 20 cm length I made my own ones and they sound much better than any commercial ones i tried. Shorter is in this case better- less interference.
I found in testing speaker cables that it is relatively easy to find some which are good at lows or highs but close to impossible to get the entire spectrum perfect. I am using Devialet's digital cross-over function. Diy silverribbon for mid highs.
For the woofers I am using kharma mono blocks and short(0.7m) quad braid cables.
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#9
Hi,

This is a subject that interested me for a long time. To make a long story short I feel today that power cables gives the biggest impact and also inconsequent results. What I mean with the last remark is that a PC can sound fantastic with one unit but give no effect with another. The only way is to test. After some issues with noise from the phono section (MC cartridge) I played around until I found a PC that lowered the noise floor considerable compared to my old ones and others tested. I settled on JPS Kaptovators for my 400. Never thought I would spend that kind of money on PC's but I did.
Previously in old systems I heard some differences between signal cables, less for digital. My home brewed loudspeaker cables (some massive single stranded copper) is still hanging on and has seen off many expensive challengers. The future may hold some new tests of speaker cables but new speakers will be first and tonearm.
I am very happy not to be in a cable race with my self any longer as well as there is no need for a lot of cables, which is a very nice feature with the Devialet.

PC's are the unexplainable most impact cables for me.

/Mike
Ex D400 Now Aavik U-300/Feickert Woodpecker2-Kuzma 4P-Kondo silver-Benz LPS-Teddy Pardo PSU/Naim Unitiserve-Teddy Pardo PSU/SF Guarneri Homage/Whole system decoupled by Ansuz DTC/Cables from Ansuz, DYI and other commercial/Dedicated mains and spur-Lampizator SILK
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#10
Sorry, but this choice between "yes" and "no" for such a critical and contested issue is far too global and not enough discriminating. I cannot answer this.
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