Poll: Can I hear differences between cables?
Yes
No
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CABLE SURVEY
#31
(09-Feb-2016, 10:18)Eddye Wrote: The main thing is what you personally believe and what you're happy with.

I do very much agree with that.
In order to educate my guess, which is agnostic at this stage, but rather sceptical as far as digital cables are concerned, I spent a couple hundreds dollars buying Oyaide cables from Japan to connect my source (Mac Mini with Audirvana)  via USB to my Mutec digital reclocker and through coax to my Devialet. When I receive them, I will be able to compare with existing cheap cables (standard USB cable supplied by Mutec and professional Mogami AES cables).
Will then be able to tell my preference, if any :-)
One rather objective problem : if I am not mistaken, the Devialet is not offering BNC connexion on its S/P-DIF input, which is rather annoying as BNC has the reputation to be a much better connection that Cinch. Will hear though :-)
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#32
I guess the one thing that really upsets me about cables, is that whether it's 'tricks on the mind' or not (or in part), the one thing you know for sure is that high-end cable manufacturers are pretty much taking people for a ride. There is, of course, no way on earth that a cable can cost anything like the RRP to make, and so their profit margins are astronomical - no doubt this is mostly offset with huge marketing costs, and the design of 'phat' expensive sheaths wrapped round them Wink
I think its fair to say the Devialet models probably cost a lot to make, and are priced pretty fairly compared to other electronics that are made on a small scale, have a lot of R&D and design put into them. As for a 1m wire with a big plug on each end, er…...

For the 'placebo' and 'bias' believers, what would be best is to get a good friend to 'buy' you a standard cable, but tell you it cost £5,000 and has amazing physical/magical properties that gives you the best sound imaginable - but that you can borrow it for a while rather than have to pay them. Then insert it into your system and enjoy the huge benefits! Mmmm, actually, I might try that one!

Roon lifetime > Mac mini > AIR ethernet (finally!!! After 2 years!!!!) > Devialet 250 Pro > PMC fact.8
- London, UK -

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#33
(09-Feb-2016, 10:07)Pim van Vliet Wrote: It's Mark's daily emails and statements from others who claim to hear clear differences in cables that made me want to do my own research. I'm a bit tired of the two arguments that are always the same; The pro-cable crowd says have a listen and the anti-cable crowd says all well made cables measure the same.

And then there's Audioquest putting themselves right in the firing line with the most obvious misleading advertising possible. I know, they didn't do it themselves but just by knowing about it and not doing anything they did themselves a tremendous disfavour.

Anyway, still listening so I can come to a conclusion  Rolleyes

We don't know that Audioquest didn't do it. Their CEO has claimed innocence (sort of), but the smoking gun is the fact that there's an Audioquest employee in the video. I suspect we may never find out the truth.

Of course, the fact that Audioquest cables have been fraudulently mis-sold doesn't mean Audioquest cables aren't perfectly serviceable, any more than VW faking their emissions tests makes VWs bad cars.

Sonos Connect (W4S) > DSpeaker Antimode 2.0 > Sanders Magtech > Martin Logan Montis
Sonos Connect (W4S) > Devialet 200 > Vivid V1.5
Silver Phantoms (just the two)
London
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#34
I have heard the difference cables can make and those where I couldn't hear a discernible difference. Any cable is a resistor, so it's not unreasonable to expect to hear changes to sound presentation is it? As long as you are happy with how your music sounds then does it really matter? I was a believer that digital cables shouldn't make any difference, but the biggest audible difference I found most recently was with an ethernet cable. Like snowflakes, it is impossible to reproduce the same think twice in nature. Unfortunately there isn't a category for this :0)
Devialet 250 (Air Ethernet) Wilson Audio Duette (Original) REL S3, Synology NAS, J-River. Arcam UDP 411
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#35
I recently found that a hifi enthusiast acquaintance of mine had a similar, but more rigorous, experience to my own.
I told him that after about 20 years of cable updates I decided to do a blind comparison at home myself and found that all the non-filtered cables I owned sounded the same. This was about 20 years ago now, and whilst I still use some of the expensive cables I had bought that is because I own them and they are nicely made, not for SQ.

His experience was not based on scepticism, as mine was. He was absolutely sure that there was a big improvement to be had from cables and had spent a fortune on his own. So sure was he of the benefit of these expensive cables, and so sure there would be a sound explanation and being an academic with PhD he sponsored a student research project to investigate audio cables in every aspect, including blind listening tests with 40 (I think he said) young listeners all of whom had their hearing tested beforehand.
The student found no electrical reason for any of the cables evaluated to be different at audio frequencies but to his shock and amazement he himself also could not hear any difference in level matched comparison between his multi thousand pound cables the others.
Up to this point he was absolutely positive he heard an improvement worth spending thousands on.
He doesn't any more, so he sold the cables and used the proceeds more effectively.
Devialet Original d'Atelier 44, Goldmund Reference/T3f /Ortofon A90, Goldmund Mimesis 36+ & Chord Blu, iMac/Air, Meridian Control 15, Lynx Theta, Tune Audio Anima, Goldmund Epilog 1&2, REL Studio. Dialog, Silver Phantoms, Branch stands, copper cables (mainly).

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#36
(22-Feb-2016, 13:19)f1eng Wrote: I recently found that a hifi enthusiast acquaintance of mine had a similar, but more rigorous, experience to my own.
I told him that after about 20 years of cable updates I decided to do a blind comparison at home myself and found that all the non-filtered cables I owned sounded the same. This was about 20 years ago now, and whilst I still use some of the expensive cables I had bought that is because I own them and they are nicely made, not for SQ.

His experience was not based on scepticism, as mine was. He was absolutely sure that there was a big improvement to be had from cables and had spent a fortune on his own. So sure was he of the benefit of these expensive cables, and so sure there would be a sound explanation and being an academic with PhD he sponsored a  student research project to investigate audio cables in every aspect, including blind listening tests with 40 (I think he said) young listeners all of whom had their hearing tested beforehand.
The student found no electrical reason for any of the cables evaluated to be different at audio frequencies but to his shock and amazement he himself also could not hear any difference in level matched comparison between his multi thousand pound cables the others.
Up to this point he was absolutely positive he heard an improvement worth spending thousands on.
He doesn't any more, so he sold the cables and used the proceeds more effectively.

I'm not sure I'd be able to reliably tell the differences between cables in a randomised blind test. Or between a 120 and 800 for that matter.

I'll still carry on buying audiophile cables though since they enhance my enjoyment of hifi. As long as I can believe I can hear a difference it doesn't really matter what anyone thinks. Sometimes opinions converge on specific products but that is hardly proof of anything, you just need to do what's right for you!

Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

O d'A no.63, Absolare Integrated Signature, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-six, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Transparent Ref XL digital cables, Transparent XL Gen 5 speaker cables, Ansuz Diamond Darkz, Shunyata mains cable prototypes, Shunyata Denali D6000/S, Shunyata Venom RCA, Audioquest Diamond Ethernet, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, AQVOX Audiophile High-End Network Switch, sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD & MCRU LPS
UK
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#37
(22-Feb-2016, 13:31)GuillaumeB Wrote: As long as I can believe I can hear a difference it doesn't really matter what anyone thinks. Sometimes opinions converge on specific products but that is hardly proof of anything, you just need to do what's right for you!
+1

I prefer to drink a wine I like than a wine Robert Parker has rated 98+.
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#38
(22-Feb-2016, 13:46)Our Wrote:
(22-Feb-2016, 13:31)GuillaumeB Wrote: As long as I can believe I can hear a difference it doesn't really matter what anyone thinks. Sometimes opinions converge on specific products but that is hardly proof of anything, you just need to do what's right for you!
+1

I prefer to drink a wine I like than a wine Robert Parker has rated 98+.

I agree with both those points.
If a cable sounds better enough to anybody for them to spend money that is real enough.
Wine is also a taste, though I am aware of many, many reasons why wines may differ. Unlike cables Smile

I have not carefully checked digital cables though so I am only referring to analogue cables here so just interconnects and speaker cables.
Devialet Original d'Atelier 44, Goldmund Reference/T3f /Ortofon A90, Goldmund Mimesis 36+ & Chord Blu, iMac/Air, Meridian Control 15, Lynx Theta, Tune Audio Anima, Goldmund Epilog 1&2, REL Studio. Dialog, Silver Phantoms, Branch stands, copper cables (mainly).

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#39
This is a subject where I sit firmly on the fence. For now and maybe because it suits my pocket I have decided that a decent but not ridiculously expensive cable will do the job.
I have decided to take this route as there is no proof that it is beneficial. If there was proof then i would probably indulge too.
I do however agree though that if people have the cash and it is their hobby and passion then they may enjoy the buying of expensive cables .
I would though love to know for sure as I would like to challenge certain dealers i have trusted over the years and paid more than i would have liked for cables on there recommendation alone. Big Grin Big Grin

Like some sort of PPI scandal I can see all the "ambulance chasers " seeking out audiophiles all over the globe. Hi Mr..........Were you sold cables incorrectly Smile
Devialet 200 -- Melco N1A-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cable
Auralic Taurus MK2 Headphone Amp -- HifiMan HE1000 Headphones
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
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#40
I originally voted no as I couldn't hear a difference between any regular cables I tried. But having tried my first set of transparent cables ("Filtered") to solve a top end issue, they do sound very different to me so I guess I should have voted yes now.

Maybe filtered cables don't fit in the normal cable debate?
Roon->HQPlayer->Air 3.04->Devialet 220 Pro->Transparent Super->Wilson Audio Sabrinas w/ Shunyata Denali, Rega RP8, Rega Apheta 2, Rega Aria


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