Devialet DAC quality equivalent?

[kenreau]

I made the switch to my D200 from a typical kit of separate Preamp, Amp and DAC (fed from JRiver on mac mini running bootcamp).  My DAC was a dCS Debussy.

I have been very happy with the experience and performance of the D200 and an Aurender S10.  My question is, does anyone have a good understanding of what the relative quality level of the internal Devialet DAC is?  i.e. is the DAC the equivalent of a separate $2,000~$3,000 DAC?  Or, ?  Given the Devialets DAC chip set and architecture, what might be a good equivalent similar outboard DAC?

How much would one need to spend on an outboard DAC to audibly outperform the internal Devialet DAC?  

Thanks
Kenreau

[amabrok]

This is a very tough question to answer especially that there so many variables in play. Some DACs play well in certain systems but do not necessarily sound the same in others. Also there is the personal taste and the like and dislike of each and every DAC sound signature. So if I try and take a wild guess my answer could be a very wide range from a few hundred dollars beautifully sounding Schiit Audio Gugnir to the several thousand stunning Esoteric D-01


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[kenreau]

Yes, I can't argue with that. Other than the TotalDAC DAC I've read a few using here, it appears most use the internal Devialet DAC. I know the cost of the TotalDAC. I guess I was wondering if there is any consensus of at what price point, or appliance level makes a sonic impact significant enough to go with an outboard DAC. For instance, the TotalDAC, the Berkeley Reference DAC, Meitner, Exasound, dCS Debussy, Esoteric D-01, probably worth it. Auralic Vega, Benchmark, Myteck, Wyred 4 Sound, probably not.

[thumb5]

Yes, I can't argue with that.  Other than the TotalDAC DAC I've read a few using here, it appears most use the internal Devialet DAC.  I know the cost of the TotalDAC.  I guess I was wondering if there is any consensus of at what price point, or appliance level makes a sonic impact significant enough to go with an outboard DAC.  For instance, the TotalDAC, the Berkeley Reference DAC, Meitner, Exasound, dCS Debussy, Esoteric D-01, probably worth it.  Auralic Vega, Benchmark, Myteck, Wyred 4 Sound, probably not.

Apologies in advance if it sounds as though I'm being pedantic, but if you're using a Devialet (Expert series) amplifier, you're using "the internal DAC" (as you put it), end of story.  It's an integral part of the way the amplifier works, not a separate processing block that sits before a traditional analogue amplifier.

As I think has been noted on other threads, if you use an external DAC via an analog input into the Devialet, it will go through an ADC before being amplified.  So you're not bypassing any internal DAC in the Devialet, rather you're adding an additional stage of processing.

If you particularly like the sound (colouration) of an external DAC then, as f1eng has noted, the Devialet will most likely preserve it unscathed.  But that's a different question than "how much do I have to spend to beat the Devialet's DAC" -- what I'm trying to suggest is that that may not be a valid question if you're using the Devialet amplifier.

Just my 2p-worth...

Ian

[Confused]

If you consider that a DAC produces an analogue output, and that the first thing the Devialet does with an analogue input is convert it to digital, prior to then performing a digital to analogue function in the ADH core, i don't think it is possible for any external DAC to improve the sound quality in absolute terms. Yes, you might achieve a slightly different sonic signature, but truly better, no.

Also, I'm not aware of anyone on this forum using a Totaldac DAC, the Totaldac D1 server, yes, but not a DAC.

Edit - it looks like my post crossed with Thumb's - great minds think alike perhaps?

[PhilP]

Yes, I can't argue with that.  Other than the TotalDAC DAC I've read a few using here, it appears most use the internal Devialet DAC.  I know the cost of the TotalDAC.  I guess I was wondering if there is any consensus of at what price point, or appliance level makes a sonic impact significant enough to go with an outboard DAC.  For instance, the TotalDAC, the Berkeley Reference DAC, Meitner, Exasound, dCS Debussy, Esoteric D-01, probably worth it.  Auralic Vega, Benchmark, Myteck, Wyred 4 Sound, probably not.

What Confused and Thumb said plus a couple of comments:

To be honest the DACs that Chord have released over the last 18m are very good and also cheap (Hugo £1,400, 2Qute £995) and some say they rival the best DACs around.  I know people who have switched from expensive Naim streamers with integrated DACs (NDS - £13,000) to Mac Mini+Hugo (£2k) and others who have switched to Devialet and neither have expressed any regrets.

In my opinion the Devialet DAC is not the limiting factor in my system. I'm currently trialling an Aurender and the Devialet very clearly exposes the superiority of that source to the others that I've been using so far.  As others have reported there are even better sources available e.g. Melco N1Z and the Devialet clearly reveals their strengths too

[Confused]

I would agree about Chord DACs, I auditioned one a couple of years ago, and to my ears it sounded better than some I tried at 3 times the price. I'll also stick my neck out here, and say that there is very little difference between the lower priced Chord DACs of recent years and the Devilaet DAC, which to me is a good thing!

[PhilP]

I would agree about Chord DACs, I auditioned one a couple of years ago, and to my ears it sounded better than some I tried at 3 times the price.  I'll also stick my neck out here, and say that there is very little difference between the lower priced Chord DACs of recent years and the Devilaet DAC, which to me is a good thing!

A dealer I know prefers Chord Hugo TT + Bryston amps to Devialet...

[Music or sound]

The only way to compare Devialet's DAC quality with other DACs is using the analog preamplified output and compare it with other DAC. I am using the preout filtered for low pass and it is very good that way. I bought my D-Premier/D250 because I wanted an integrated amplifier (including x-over). I can imagine to find better DAC and amplifier combinations but at much higher expenses (also space wise).

[kenreau]

Thanks for the input guys. I lost sight of the fact that its impossible to avoid the internal Devialet digital conversion processes.