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Mains power and conditioning
#41
(18-Jul-2017, 18:45)Petter Wrote: Supra with a new product for mains that dont kost a million

Shame, probably doesn't work then... Big Grin Tongue

Roon lifetime > Mac mini > AIR ethernet* (finally!!! After 2 years!!!!) > Devialet 250 Pro > PMC fact.8
 >>> *On trial; Allo DigiOne > spdif and AES (via Neutrik)
- London, UK -

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#42
I think proper ground is key point here. It's makes the system stable even when the mains supply isn't clean or stable
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#43
The Supra "Removes DC from AC mains" as it says, does little else. It is not a power conditioner as such. It is practically the same as the PS Audio Humbuster III which I have had for many years now. Works wonderfully on large amps with transformers (or maybe anything with a transformer if you have a lot of DC in you mains) but does little for Devialet as it doesn't have a linear power supply. I tried. For not much money you can get an Isotek Evo3 Sirius or Audioquest Niagara 1000.

Zoltan
Win10 + HQPlayer - network - SOtM-SMS-200ultra - Mutec MC-3 USB+  Devialet D800 - YG Acoustics Carmel - Dual Elac SUB-2090, cables: Acrolink, Acoustic Revive, Curious USB, Vovox textura IC digital LAN. 'tweeks': Shakti Stones and Halograph, Acoustic Revive RR-777, Zcable Sleeves, fo.Q vibration control, (for movies: Avielo by Projection Design, OPPO-UDP203)
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#44
I ve borrowed isotek sirius with 2 main cables the premier entry level and the sequel .
Tried premier pc first ,for few days, bass was better but not day and night difference .
Then switched to sequel and here bass was much mych tighter better controlled, the voices more forward( more dpth on the sound) .
More break in needed , 100 hours recommended.
Highly recommended !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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#45
Do any of these power conditioner companies provide measurement data - at the analogue output - with and without them?

It seems some are happy to show noise sniffer type stuff or oscilloscope measurements directly off the conditioner on the mains side - and use this as proof that they're working - but I've never seen anything out of the speaker terminals or DAC output. Something like a Devialet would be perfect for this.

I'm not saying it can equate to what's good or bad SQ, but it should show an obvious difference before and after, using any of the tests experts in this stuff use. I.e. Ok so it reduces noise on the power line, but did that noise make any audible difference at the output in the first place, or did the audio equipments power supply just deal with this anyway. But if so, by how much did the conditioner improve the situation? Surely it would be easy and obvious to get measurements just to prove it's not all placebo?

I started getting interested in the idea, but the more I read - by any competent scientific body - the more I'm inclined to believe it's voodoo. But I'm ready to be converted - just not by listening to one and convincing myself it's working.

I'd like to see someone like archimago put one through its paces to be honest.

Roon lifetime > Mac mini > AIR ethernet* (finally!!! After 2 years!!!!) > Devialet 250 Pro > PMC fact.8
 >>> *On trial; Allo DigiOne > spdif and AES (via Neutrik)
- London, UK -

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#46
(19-Jul-2017, 13:40)Hifi_swlon Wrote: Do any of these power conditioner companies provide measurement data - at the analogue output - with and without them?

It seems some are happy to show noise sniffer type stuff or oscilloscope measurements directly off the conditioner on the mains side - and use this as proof that they're working - but I've never seen anything out of the speaker terminals or DAC output. Something like a Devialet would be perfect for this.

I'm not saying it can equate to what's good or bad SQ, but it should show an obvious difference before and after, using any of the tests experts in this stuff use. I.e. Ok so it reduces noise on the power line, but did that noise make any audible difference at the output in the first place, or did the audio equipments power supply just deal with this anyway. But if so, by how much did the conditioner improve the situation? Surely it would be easy and obvious to get measurements just to prove it's not all placebo?

I started getting interested in the idea, but the more I read - by any competent scientific body - the more I'm inclined to believe it's voodoo. But I'm ready to be converted - just not by listening to one and convincing myself it's working.

I'd like to see someone like archimago put one through its paces to be honest.

+1.
Sound convinces me more than the measurements. With or without noise, we need to ear it... clearly.
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#47
(19-Jul-2017, 13:40)Hifi_swlon Wrote: Do any of these power conditioner companies provide measurement data - at the analogue output - with and without them?

It seems some are happy to show noise sniffer type stuff or oscilloscope measurements directly off the conditioner on the mains side - and use this as proof that they're working - but I've never seen anything out of the speaker terminals or DAC output. Something like a Devialet would be perfect for this.

I'm not saying it can equate to what's good or bad SQ, but it should show an obvious difference before and after, using any of the tests experts in this stuff use. I.e. Ok so it reduces noise on the power line, but did that noise make any audible difference at the output in the first place, or did the audio equipments power supply just deal with this anyway. But if so, by how much did the conditioner improve the situation? Surely it would be easy and obvious to get measurements just to prove it's not all placebo?

I started getting interested in the idea, but the more I read - by any competent scientific body - the more I'm inclined to believe it's voodoo. But I'm ready to be converted - just not by listening to one and convincing myself it's working.

I'd like to see someone like archimago put one through its paces to be honest.

What do measured values mean?
Since no power grid is the same on the ground as to the internal resistance and other parameters, a network filter does not have the same effect everywhere.
The significance of the mode of operation on the ground behaves similarly, as consumption data of passenger cars. It is also measured under normalized conditions, which are often very different from the practice.
A network filter, one should always at home on the own network test. With an absolutely clean network - at least theoretically - hardly any further sound improvement is to be expected.
In any case, additional value should be placed on a good house installation. Starting from the fuse elements via good contacts in junction boxes, sockets and connection cables.
For example, the measurement curve of a filter!


Attached Files
.pdf   0900766b8157efb7.pdf (Size: 105.84 KB / Downloads: 14)
Devialet 220Pro, Focal Sopra 3, Linn Klimax DS 3, Burmester 089 CD, Melco N1Z, Cable Audioquest (NRG-10,Diamond,K2,Yukon etc.), MacBook Pro, IsoTek EVO3 Sigmas, iPad(2017)
                                                                       Germany / Bavaria
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#48
(19-Jul-2017, 16:46)K4680 Wrote: What do measured values mean?

Too funny!

Roon lifetime > Mac mini > AIR ethernet* (finally!!! After 2 years!!!!) > Devialet 250 Pro > PMC fact.8
 >>> *On trial; Allo DigiOne > spdif and AES (via Neutrik)
- London, UK -

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#49
(19-Jul-2017, 16:46)K4680 Wrote: What do measured values mean?

Prizes! Smile

(Sorry for that, rather UK-middle-aged-demographic-related joke.)
Wilson Benesch Full Circle, Sonos ZP90 (Cullen modified), Devialet 440 Pro, Kaiser Chiara
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#50
(19-Jul-2017, 13:40)Hifi_swlon Wrote: Do any of these power conditioner companies provide measurement data - at the analogue output - with and without them?

It seems some are happy to show noise sniffer type stuff or oscilloscope measurements directly off the conditioner on the mains side - and use this as proof that they're working - but I've never seen anything out of the speaker terminals or DAC output. Something like a Devialet would be perfect for this.

I'm not saying it can equate to what's good or bad SQ, but it should show an obvious difference before and after, using any of the tests experts in this stuff use. I.e. Ok so it reduces noise on the power line, but did that noise make any audible difference at the output in the first place, or did the audio equipments power supply just deal with this anyway. But if so, by how much did the conditioner improve the situation? Surely it would be easy and obvious to get measurements just to prove it's not all placebo?

I started getting interested in the idea, but the more I read - by any competent scientific body - the more I'm inclined to believe it's voodoo. But I'm ready to be converted - just not by listening to one and convincing myself it's working.

I'd like to see someone like archimago put one through its paces to be honest.

Not ideal, but at least something..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAAEhtAUT34
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zAfnCX3-qk
This is the same guy who designed Audioquest Niagara 7000 as well.
I was in the same boat as you and resisted power conditioners for years.. what a mistake :-). Of course a few people will have clean power in their house, but I'm certainly not one of them from the sound of it :-)
Pioneer S1-EX; Synology NAS ->SMS-200 /w Uptone LPS-1->Mutec MC3+ USB->1000pro (AES) ,
Sony BDP/Roku->HDMI->Marantz 8802A->Pre-out->1000pro (Bypass), Google Music/Chromecast Audio->Mutec MC3+ USB->1000pro (AES)
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