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Phantom impressions
#1
Just came back from Wilmington, where I auditioned the Phantom at Overture Ultimate Home Electronics. First off, let me say that Roni at Overture was very accommodating and provided excellent customer service. I can high recommend both the store and him in particular.

Background on my own experience/tastes so you know where I'm coming from: I primarily listen to classical. My current system is a NAD D 7050 ($1000) driving Golden Ear Triton Seven tower speakers ($1400/pair). (Other speakers I've owned in the past include the Paradigm Signature S1 and the Usher Audio BE-718.) I'm very happy with the system, but considering upgrading to Golden Ear's Triton Five towers ($2000/pair). But the idea of the Phantoms, with the ease of use it promised, seemed very intriguing. Total cost for a pair plus Dialog is about more than the Triton Fives and the NAD, but close enough to make an interesting comparison of two different ways to spend about $3000-$4300 for good sound that also involves a minimum of components and cables.

I'd expressed interest in the Phantom a few months ago to Roni, and he called last week to let me know they had a demo pair of Phantoms in the store for a limited time. So I made it to Wilmington, with the Apple Lossless files on my iPhone and some CDs as backup.

First impressions - The Phantom is a bit smaller than I imagined. The look is very high-tech and futuristic (when I saw the first pics at the end of last year I thought it was a new vacuum cleaner from Dyson!), perhaps not an obvious fit for all decors, but attractive in its own way. The Phantom seemed to stay quite cool to the touch. However, the Dialog (which was also bigger than I imagined) runs rather warm, as others on this forum have reported. The plastic bits do not get alarmingly hot (although I did not get close enough to check for any "burning plastic" smell). But the two long metal vents on the top of the Dialog definitely get too hot to touch for more than a second or two.

Operations - The Phantoms and the Dialog were all on firmware 1.2.0.0. The Spark app was less buggy than I expected; I guess they've fixed many of the bugs. I was able to connect to the demo Phantoms quite easily. I didn't care for the way the app makes you add everything to the playlist first (even the optical input gets added as a playlist item - meaning switching to optical is a two step process: first add to playlist, then make it play by double-tapping in the playlist). Several times my music (all of it Apple Lossless) would not play. I didn't experiment long enough to tell whether it was specific files, or random. At one point it seemed like the Phantom would not play Beethoven and Brahms, only Chopin and Saint-Saens, so maybe it has a French bias?  Wink

Sound - Surprisingly good. The sound is good enough to be used for serious listening. Getting this quality of sound (including bass and dynamic capability) from such a small enclosure is a real technical achievement. But contrary to the (rather ridiculous) marketing hype, the Phantom doesn't sound anywhere near as good as $50,000 system. It doesn't even sound as good as the best $5000 speakers, although of course those don't have amplification. The overall sound was quite neutral, bass was both tight and plentiful (and no, the bass drivers don't pulse much with most program material). Imaging was decent but not spectacular - I thought the image was on the small side, though reasonably precise. The mids and treble, while good, did not have quite the openness and airiness of the best speakers even in the $2000 price range, some of which do have beryllium tweeters. As others have pointed out, in a way it's too bad that Devialet solved the big challenge of getting bass and volume out of such a small cabinet, seemingly overcoming physics in the process, but put in a tweeter of seemingly conventional design. Perhaps there's room for a Phantom Diamond? Or Be(ryllium) Phantom? Anyway, I don't want to be too harsh here. The Phantom does sound very good, and most people (whose tastes will be different from mine) will be enormously impressed. But I'm just pointing out that the Phantom doesn't come close to meeting the claims made for it by Devialet's marketing. I guess that's what makes it marketing - though there are definitely approaches other than Devialet's in-your-face, sometimes outright ridiculous approach.

Dealbreakers - Up front, a disclaimer that the dealer calls this a "prototype." But the firmware has already gone through several revisions, and the users who bought the Phantom up to now (mostly Europe, presumably) have already served as beta testers for months. But the demo Phantom displayed several behaviors which I found unacceptable. First, there were issues with wireless performance. The Phantom would cut out momentarily often, though not always, when a person stood near it or touched the back of the unit. And then there were other times when the music would cut out briefly or have audible "clicks" not on the recording, even when no one was standing nearby or touching the unit, again presumably due to problems with the wireless. This happened even when playing music through the optical input on the Dialog. Disappointing considering how much Devialet touts the robustness of the wireless connection between the Phantoms and the Dialog. Perhaps most seriously (for me), the both of the Phantom speakers made a faint but definitely noticeable noise that I would describe as slightly scratchy, similar to the physical noise a CD/DVD player would make in spinning the disc (but we were able to rule out that possibility; the noise definitely came from the speakers). The noise would start as soon as music was played, and end just a few seconds after music ended (or paused). The noise was present regardless of what recording I played, and regardless of whether the music was from my iPhone or from CD (through the optical input). The noise is definitely not present on the recordings. (The volume of the noise was constant, regardless of the volume setting, again indicating that the noise is not from the recordings - and all the recordings I used for audition were very well-engineered, recent digital classical recordings.) We even hooked up the Phantoms via Ethernet to make sure it wasn't a problem with the wireless, and the noise still was present. Again, it's fairly faint, probably not noticeable if you have an AC (or other source of ambient noise) going, and probably not if you play pop/rock recordings that is mostly one constant volume, which would cover much of the noise. But it is definitely noticeable if you play well-engineered acoustic recordings, with quiet passages, in a quiet environment.

The bottom line for me - Impressive on many levels, but the Phantoms seem to still be in beta (or even alpha), making them hard to recommend at this time for critical listeners who really care about the quality of their music reproduction. Even setting aside the unrealistic expectations created by Devialet's marketing, there are some problems that I find hard to overlook at over $4000 for the stereo pair and Dialog, though I recognize others may have different views. But these issues should be fixable. Sonos has demonstrated it's possible to make a reliable wireless music system. I hope Devialet gets there too - and their speakers are already well ahead of Sonos' products in terms of sonics (as they should be, at this price).
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#2
Very good review. Thank you. Smile
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#3
(27-Jun-2015, 22:00)02nz Wrote: Just came back from Wilmington, where I auditioned the Phantom at Overture Ultimate Home Electronics. First off, let me say that Roni at Overture was very accommodating and provided excellent customer service. I can high recommend both the store and him in particular.

Background on my own experience/tastes so you know where I'm coming from: I primarily listen to classical. My current system is a NAD D 7050 ($1000) driving Golden Ear Triton Seven tower speakers ($1400/pair). (Other speakers I've owned in the past include the Paradigm Signature S1 and the Usher Audio BE-718.) I'm very happy with the system, but considering upgrading to Golden Ear's Triton Five towers ($2000/pair). But the idea of the Phantoms, with the ease of use it promised, seemed very intriguing. Total cost for a pair plus Dialog is about more than the Triton Fives and the NAD, but close enough to make an interesting comparison of two different ways to spend about $3000-$4300 for good sound that also involves a minimum of components and cables.

I'd expressed interest in the Phantom a few months ago to Roni, and he called last week to let me know they had a demo pair of Phantoms in the store for a limited time. So I made it to Wilmington, with the Apple Lossless files on my iPhone and some CDs as backup.

First impressions - The Phantom is a bit smaller than I imagined. The look is very high-tech and futuristic (when I saw the first pics at the end of last year I thought it was a new vacuum cleaner from Dyson!), perhaps not an obvious fit for all decors, but attractive in its own way. The Phantom seemed to stay quite cool to the touch. However, the Dialog (which was also bigger than I imagined) runs rather warm, as others on this forum have reported. The plastic bits do not get alarmingly hot (although I did not get close enough to check for any "burning plastic" smell). But the two long metal vents on the top of the Dialog definitely get too hot to touch for more than a second or two.

Operations - The Phantoms and the Dialog were all on firmware 1.2.0.0. The Spark app was less buggy than I expected; I guess they've fixed many of the bugs. I was able to connect to the demo Phantoms quite easily. I didn't care for the way the app makes you add everything to the playlist first (even the optical input gets added as a playlist item - meaning switching to optical is a two step process: first add to playlist, then make it play by double-tapping in the playlist). Several times my music (all of it Apple Lossless) would not play. I didn't experiment long enough to tell whether it was specific files, or random. At one point it seemed like the Phantom would not play Beethoven and Brahms, only Chopin and Saint-Saens, so maybe it has a French bias?  Wink

Sound - Surprisingly good. The sound is good enough to be used for serious listening. Getting this quality of sound (including bass and dynamic capability) from such a small enclosure is a real technical achievement. But contrary to the (rather ridiculous) marketing hype, the Phantom doesn't sound anywhere near as good as $50,000 system. It doesn't even sound as good as the best $5000 speakers, although of course those don't have amplification. The overall sound was quite neutral, bass was both tight and plentiful (and no, the bass drivers don't pulse much with most program material). Imaging was decent but not spectacular - I thought the image was on the small side, though reasonably precise. The mids and treble, while good, did not have quite the openness and airiness of the best speakers even in the $2000 price range, some of which do have beryllium tweeters. As others have pointed out, in a way it's too bad that Devialet solved the big challenge of getting bass and volume out of such a small cabinet, seemingly overcoming physics in the process, but put in a tweeter of seemingly conventional design. Perhaps there's room for a Phantom Diamond? Or Be(ryllium) Phantom? Anyway, I don't want to be too harsh here. The Phantom does sound very good, and most people (whose tastes will be different from mine) will be enormously impressed. But I'm just pointing out that the Phantom doesn't come close to meeting the claims made for it by Devialet's marketing. I guess that's what makes it marketing - though there are definitely approaches other than Devialet's in-your-face, sometimes outright ridiculous approach.

Dealbreakers - Up front, a disclaimer that the dealer calls this a "prototype." But the firmware has already gone through several revisions, and the users who bought the Phantom up to now (mostly Europe, presumably) have already served as beta testers for months. But the demo Phantom displayed several behaviors which I found unacceptable. First, there were issues with wireless performance. The Phantom would cut out momentarily often, though not always, when a person stood near it or touched the back of the unit. And then there were other times when the music would cut out briefly or have audible "clicks" not on the recording, even when no one was standing nearby or touching the unit, again presumably due to problems with the wireless. This happened even when playing music through the optical input on the Dialog. Disappointing considering how much Devialet touts the robustness of the wireless connection between the Phantoms and the Dialog. Perhaps most seriously (for me), the both of the Phantom speakers made a faint but definitely noticeable noise that I would describe as slightly scratchy, similar to the physical noise a CD/DVD player would make in spinning the disc (but we were able to rule out that possibility; the noise definitely came from the speakers). The noise would start as soon as music was played, and end just a few seconds after music ended (or paused). The noise was present regardless of what recording I played, and regardless of whether the music was from my iPhone or from CD (through the optical input). The noise is definitely not present on the recordings. (The volume of the noise was constant, regardless of the volume setting, again indicating that the noise is not from the recordings - and all the recordings I used for audition were very well-engineered, recent digital classical recordings.) We even hooked up the Phantoms via Ethernet to make sure it wasn't a problem with the wireless, and the noise still was present. Again, it's fairly faint, probably not noticeable if you have an AC (or other source of ambient noise) going, and probably not if you play pop/rock recordings that is mostly one constant volume, which would cover much of the noise. But it is definitely noticeable if you play well-engineered acoustic recordings, with quiet passages, in a quiet environment.

The bottom line for me - Impressive on many levels, but the Phantoms seem to still be in beta (or even alpha), making them hard to recommend at this time for critical listeners who really care about the quality of their music reproduction. Even setting aside the unrealistic expectations created by Devialet's marketing, there are some problems that I find hard to overlook at over $4000 for the stereo pair and Dialog, though I recognize others may have different views. But these issues should be fixable. Sonos has demonstrated it's possible to make a reliable wireless music system. I hope Devialet gets there too - and their speakers are already well ahead of Sonos' products in terms of sonics (as they should be, at this price).

Hmm. Can't relate to much of anything you are saying here. They are way better than my B&W's which if I'm not to be rude are outside your price bracket by a large margin. But hey, I respect your opinion, but I can't agree with any of the negatives you imagine to be there.
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#4
[/quote]
Hmm. Can't relate to much of anything you are saying here. They are way better than my B&W's which if I'm not to be rude are outside your price bracket by a large margin. But hey, I respect your opinion, but I can't agree with any of the negatives you imagine to be there.
[/quote]

Sorry if I'm being thin-skinned, but there's a better way to express respect for someone's opinion than saying that those opinions/observations are "imagined to be there." I wanted to like and buy (eventually when they became available in the US) the Phantoms but it didn't work out. I shared my observations on why I wouldn't purchase them at least right now, given the multitude of problems. And the dealer and I spent close to two hours with the Phantom, including extensive trial and error to try to isolate the cause of the weird noise. So in terms of what I said about operational problems, including the static-y/scratchy noise, those aren't even opinions, they are factual observations. Perhaps they aren't the whole picture, perhaps they are explained by factors unknown to me (and the dealer), perhaps they don't matter to others, perhaps (quite possibly!) they'll be fixed in the future, but they are what they are, I definitely didn't "imagine" them.

I didn't mention in the original post (as it would've been a bit off-topic) that I also spent quite a bit of time auditioning the Magico S1 speakers at the same dealer. The S1's are in a different league in terms of transparency and soundstage. They're three times the price of the pair of Phantoms, so it wouldn't even be a fair comparison which is also why I didn't make one. But my point here is only that Devialet's marketing is over the top, not that the speakers aren't a technical marvel, which they absolutely are.

BTW I have extensively auditioned B&W speakers in the past, including the PM1 and the 805 Diamond. I realize B&W has considerable heritage when it comes to recording monitors, but I didn't find either of the models I auditioned to be compelling, especially given their prices. In my opinion B&W has decided to become the Bose of the high-end category, and most of its speakers and headphones go for mass appeal (but at an appropriately non-mass-market price point!), often with boosted bass, rather than accuracy and sonic truth. So it's hardly my reference point for speakers, although I still think their higher-range speakers sound better overall than the Phantom.
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#5
(27-Jun-2015, 22:00)O2nzThanks for your reflection.  I find them very helpful though I finally did decide against going with the Phantoms for this first interation.  Their convenience and size though certainly are  very attractive. MtnGuy02nz Wrote: Just came back from Wilmington, where I auditioned the Phantom at Overture Ultimate Home Electronics. First off, let me say that Roni at Overture was very accommodating and provided excellent customer service. I can high recommend both the store and him in particular.

Background on my own experience/tastes so you know where I'm coming from: I primarily listen to classical. My current system is a NAD D 7050 ($1000) driving Golden Ear Triton Seven tower speakers ($1400/pair). (Other speakers I've owned in the past include the Paradigm Signature S1 and the Usher Audio BE-718.) I'm very happy with the system, but considering upgrading to Golden Ear's Triton Five towers ($2000/pair). But the idea of the Phantoms, with the ease of use it promised, seemed very intriguing. Total cost for a pair plus Dialog is about more than the Triton Fives and the NAD, but close enough to make an interesting comparison of two different ways to spend about $3000-$4300 for good sound that also involves a minimum of components and cables.

I'd expressed interest in the Phantom a few months ago to Roni, and he called last week to let me know they had a demo pair of Phantoms in the store for a limited time. So I made it to Wilmington, with the Apple Lossless files on my iPhone and some CDs as backup.

First impressions - The Phantom is a bit smaller than I imagined. The look is very high-tech and futuristic (when I saw the first pics at the end of last year I thought it was a new vacuum cleaner from Dyson!), perhaps not an obvious fit for all decors, but attractive in its own way. The Phantom seemed to stay quite cool to the touch. However, the Dialog (which was also bigger than I imagined) runs rather warm, as others on this forum have reported. The plastic bits do not get alarmingly hot (although I did not get close enough to check for any "burning plastic" smell). But the two long metal vents on the top of the Dialog definitely get too hot to touch for more than a second or two.

Operations - The Phantoms and the Dialog were all on firmware 1.2.0.0. The Spark app was less buggy than I expected; I guess they've fixed many of the bugs. I was able to connect to the demo Phantoms quite easily. I didn't care for the way the app makes you add everything to the playlist first (even the optical input gets added as a playlist item - meaning switching to optical is a two step process: first add to playlist, then make it play by double-tapping in the playlist). Several times my music (all of it Apple Lossless) would not play. I didn't experiment long enough to tell whether it was specific files, or random. At one point it seemed like the Phantom would not play Beethoven and Brahms, only Chopin and Saint-Saens, so maybe it has a French bias?  Wink

Sound - Surprisingly good. The sound is good enough to be used for serious listening. Getting this quality of sound (including bass and dynamic capability) from such a small enclosure is a real technical achievement. But contrary to the (rather ridiculous) marketing hype, the Phantom doesn't sound anywhere near as good as $50,000 system. It doesn't even sound as good as the best $5000 speakers, although of course those don't have amplification. The overall sound was quite neutral, bass was both tight and plentiful (and no, the bass drivers don't pulse much with most program material). Imaging was decent but not spectacular - I thought the image was on the small side, though reasonably precise. The mids and treble, while good, did not have quite the openness and airiness of the best speakers even in the $2000 price range, some of which do have beryllium tweeters. As others have pointed out, in a way it's too bad that Devialet solved the big challenge of getting bass and volume out of such a small cabinet, seemingly overcoming physics in the process, but put in a tweeter of seemingly conventional design. Perhaps there's room for a Phantom Diamond? Or Be(ryllium) Phantom? Anyway, I don't want to be too harsh here. The Phantom does sound very good, and most people (whose tastes will be different from mine) will be enormously impressed. But I'm just pointing out that the Phantom doesn't come close to meeting the claims made for it by Devialet's marketing. I guess that's what makes it marketing - though there are definitely approaches other than Devialet's in-your-face, sometimes outright ridiculous approach.

Dealbreakers - Up front, a disclaimer that the dealer calls this a "prototype." But the firmware has already gone through several revisions, and the users who bought the Phantom up to now (mostly Europe, presumably) have already served as beta testers for months. But the demo Phantom displayed several behaviors which I found unacceptable. First, there were issues with wireless performance. The Phantom would cut out momentarily often, though not always, when a person stood near it or touched the back of the unit. And then there were other times when the music would cut out briefly or have audible "clicks" not on the recording, even when no one was standing nearby or touching the unit, again presumably due to problems with the wireless. This happened even when playing music through the optical input on the Dialog. Disappointing considering how much Devialet touts the robustness of the wireless connection between the Phantoms and the Dialog. Perhaps most seriously (for me), the both of the Phantom speakers made a faint but definitely noticeable noise that I would describe as slightly scratchy, similar to the physical noise a CD/DVD player would make in spinning the disc (but we were able to rule out that possibility; the noise definitely came from the speakers). The noise would start as soon as music was played, and end just a few seconds after music ended (or paused). The noise was present regardless of what recording I played, and regardless of whether the music was from my iPhone or from CD (through the optical input). The noise is definitely not present on the recordings. (The volume of the noise was constant, regardless of the volume setting, again indicating that the noise is not from the recordings - and all the recordings I used for audition were very well-engineered, recent digital classical recordings.) We even hooked up the Phantoms via Ethernet to make sure it wasn't a problem with the wireless, and the noise still was present. Again, it's fairly faint, probably not noticeable if you have an AC (or other source of ambient noise) going, and probably not if you play pop/rock recordings that is mostly one constant volume, which would cover much of the noise. But it is definitely noticeable if you play well-engineered acoustic recordings, with quiet passages, in a quiet environment.

The bottom line for me - Impressive on many levels, but the Phantoms seem to still be in beta (or even alpha), making them hard to recommend at this time for critical listeners who really care about the quality of their music reproduction. Even setting aside the unrealistic expectations created by Devialet's marketing, there are some problems that I find hard to overlook at over $4000 for the stereo pair and Dialog, though I recognize others may have different views. But these issues should be fixable. Sonos has demonstrated it's possible to make a reliable wireless music system. I hope Devialet gets there too - and their speakers are already well ahead of Sonos' products in terms of sonics (as they should be, at this price).
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#6
I think the dealer has a bad pair of phantoms or Dialog
I have had mine for over three months and they are totally silent ( except for great music)
I sold my goldmund amp naim streamer and Retired my Quad ESL speakers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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#7
I also experience noise coming from my silver Phantoms. It's very obvious in my case. Devialet know about the problem and are working on a fix. They told me that they reduced it in some of the firmwares they released, but to be honest I don't hear the difference. It's still very much present and really annoying.  I think I can't really enjoy the Phantoms before this problem is totally resolved.
Devialet 250PRO - Audio Physic Avantera - AIR-ETH - Roon
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#8
I would be interested to know whether the pair heard at the dealers were fully run in. My initial thoughts when they first arrived was that they were a bit shut in. They seem to need a longish run in period as do most speakers. Mine are completely silent. Perhaps they jumped the gun on releasing them before all the 'issues' were ironed out which includes the poor design process when designing the on speaker connections. Most toslink cables connectors are to fat and long to fit.. I am a little disappointed that the Branch stands and remote control are nowhere to be found. Poor logistics for a company with so much money behind them. However overall they are very very good and I do not regret buying them.
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#9
To 02NZ - sorry if I gave you the impression the faults were in your head. Clearly not. Although I disagree with your impressions of the Phantoms, your review was well written.

As far as my Phantoms are concerned I have not experienced any problems. I have 3 and they have worked flawlessly. A couple of observations. Spark is stable and is now great to use. No cut-outs, start up issues etc. Much better than it was, when it was first released. I would also agree that they do take a bit of running in, a good couple of weeks and things get better from there.

This weekend I swapped out my Playstation for an Xbox One for streaming from Amazon etc. I had a major problem with lip sync, but strangely enough it went away after a couple of reboots. I never had any such issue with the Playstation.


Regarding B&W's I had 803 Diamonds that needed to be driven with a lot of power to make them sing. In contrast these little babies can be played at 1/4 mast (Volume 25) and for most good recordings everything stands out as clear as crystal. I am truly baffled by your assessment, and in my view the hyperbole from Devialet and others is warranted - the technology in the Phantoms and the rest of the product range, for better or worse represent the next evolution in HiFi.
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#10
(28-Jun-2015, 22:22)stonedragon Wrote: This weekend I swapped out my Playstation for an Xbox One for streaming from Amazon etc. I had a major problem with lip sync, but strangely enough it went away after a couple of reboots. I never had any such issue with the Playstation.

Would you say all the lipsync problems are now gone? Once and for all? For all sources ? Even TV?
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