Master/slave link

[Mikeeo]

Kunter and Guillaume,

Thanks for your insights. Do I correctly understand that you both use a RCA-XLR set-up? And how does it connect? RCA at slave or the opposite? As you both run 800's and I 400 is there another set-up for the 800 enabling the XLR-RCA config?
I remember Thierry told me that if I could run the AES/EBU I should but I am not sure I can have this config with my 400!?

/Mike

Hi Mike

I guess you have discovered it by now but, if not, yes you can.

In the 400 advanced configurator click on the chaining drop down. You can untick "share sources from slave" and then click on the lower XLR socket - this then allows you to connect RCA master to XLR slave. But with this you do not get input facilities on the slave.

I remember initially, in the D-Premier, Thierry said the RCA to XLR was better than RCA to RCA. I do not know whether this still applies.

Remember to use a 75 ohm cable!

Thanks for stepping in and answering this Ian.

I also got a bit confused by this whole XLR/RCA and RCA/RCA thing and had some correspondence on the subject with Thierry. At the time I wasn't convinced by a hybrid cable (wouldn't this result in impedance variations?). In the event my 500 shipped with an RCA/RCA cable (Transparent cable by the looks of things). The 400 appears to ship with an RCA/RCA Crystal cable. So presumably Devialet have changed their tact on this subject.

Guillaume

Guillaume,

Initially when talking to Thierry he said that the RCA-XLR was optimal if I could get such config but later when I asked again, after going D400, Thierry said that the RCA-RCA will be optimal and I should not worry. As i didn't get a proper technical explanation during this time as well as no answer to how the AES/EBU input could accept 75 ohm when designated to 110 ohm, I do not take anything from Dev as granted and just test myself and take in the input from the forum members that have real experience with setting up the system.

I'm still 'optimizing'

/Mike

[nicoludio]

Just heard from Devialet (not Thierry):

1. Since they are linked via a digital connection, wouldn't the sound of the slave be dependent (and vary depending) on the quality/flavour of the digital interconnect used? Or, has the slave unit been "voiced" based on the Crystal cable digital interconnect?

> There has been no 'voicing' to the supplied interconnect. As a matter of fact, Devialet proprietary technologies make it rather insensitive which cables are used (be it power supply, speaker, or digital interconnects). We do not believe there will be 'flavour' differences between different digital interconnects between both units, and have not noticed any.

2. Plus, Devialet has chosen to use RCAs instead of BNCs so there may be impedance mismatches since the impedance is not 75 Ohm throughout the transmission chain?

> RCA connections electrical properties are taken into account in the transmission between the Master and the Companion (new name of the Slave).

3. For dual mono DACs, there is usually a clock sync connection between them. In this case, unless there is a clock sync function implemented by Devialet, it would appear that the slave has to extract the clock from the signal sent by the master, leading to potential timing issues?

> The clock sync is indeed catered for between Master and Companions (you can add up to 7 Companions, in active multi-amplification set-ups).

4. With AIR, Devialet could have chosen allow data to be streamed to both master/slave units either wirelessly or wired. If wired, then if the same type of ethernet cable were used for both units, the "flavour" would be the same. Was there any reason why this was not implemented? This does not solve the clock sync issues though.

> Indeed, the clock sync issue is solved by having only the Master receive the audio stream, then sending the audio to the Companions in a sync'ed way.

Not sure that I quite understand or agree but c'es la vie.

[darthsteph]

> There has been no 'voicing' to the supplied interconnect. As a matter of fact, Devialet proprietary technologies make it rather insensitive which cables are used (be it power supply, speaker, or digital interconnects). We do not believe there will be 'flavour' differences between different digital interconnects between both units, and have not noticed any.

So, now I'm sure… They never heard their amps with different cables… "insensitive which cables are used"… How can they write that ? I talked to them and some people of the team agreed that their customers have different results depending on the cables connected to the Devialet…

And on french fora, the question about the master / slave link is not solved… And some think that they don't manage to link both amps…

So, this answer is not THE answer...

[Mikeeo]

Just heard from Devialet (not Thierry):

1. Since they are linked via a digital connection, wouldn't the sound of the slave be dependent (and vary depending) on the quality/flavour of the digital interconnect used? Or, has the slave unit been "voiced" based on the Crystal cable digital interconnect?

> There has been no 'voicing' to the supplied interconnect. As a matter of fact, Devialet proprietary technologies make it rather insensitive which cables are used (be it power supply, speaker, or digital interconnects). We do not believe there will be 'flavour' differences between different digital interconnects between both units, and have not noticed any.

2. Plus, Devialet has chosen to use RCAs instead of BNCs so there may be impedance mismatches since the impedance is not 75 Ohm throughout the transmission chain?

> RCA connections electrical properties are taken into account in the transmission between the Master and the Companion (new name of the Slave).

3. For dual mono DACs, there is usually a clock sync connection between them. In this case, unless there is a clock sync function implemented by Devialet, it would appear that the slave has to extract the clock from the signal sent by the master, leading to potential timing issues?

> The clock sync is indeed catered for between Master and Companions (you can add up to 7 Companions, in active multi-amplification set-ups).

4. With AIR, Devialet could have chosen allow data to be streamed to both master/slave units either wirelessly or wired. If wired, then if the same type of ethernet cable were used for both units, the "flavour" would be the same. Was there any reason why this was not implemented? This does not solve the clock sync issues though.

> Indeed, the clock sync issue is solved by having only the Master receive the audio stream, then sending the audio to the Companions in a sync'ed way.

Not sure that I quite understand or agree but c'es la vie.

Hi,

The first answer (-do not believe-) to you question confirm to me that some issues that are issues to us users are ignored as Dev doesn't have the answer due to that they don't know or the consider it a nonsens issue.
"We do not believe there will be 'flavour' differences between different digital interconnects between both units, and have not noticed any."

As stated by me in this forum I will test with my flavor 75 ohm dig. cable and my favorite rca's in a few weeks time.

/Mike

[f1eng]

I don't hear any difference between the cables I have tried in any location. I did a big and careful level matched blind test many years ago where I compared many interconnects and speaker cables, because people talked about the differences.
I heard none between any cables apart from the MIT with filter boxes.
Now it could be expectation bias, since I know of no mechanism by which cables which are of adequate gauge and properly terminated, can possibly have any influence at audio frequencies, so that is maybe why I heard none.

I have tried 3 different speaker cables with my Devialets. No difference that I can detect. I use whatever interconnects I have which are the length I need. these vary from cheap to very, very expensive (bought on recommendation, not audition, foolishly).

Devialet are first and foremost an engineering company.
Some of their more enthusiastic customers will believe in the hifi "witchcraft" and they will have to be as careful as they can not to alienate them whilst continuing to do things in a technically correct way.

As many of you know I believe that enthusiasts genuinely hear differences which do not exist in hifi equipment in the way that illness can be healed using medication that does not exist (placebo), it is the same science IMHO. It is just as real to the people who believe (but somewhat expensive).

[Mikeeo]

I don't hear any difference between the cables I have tried in any location. I did a big and careful level matched blind test many years ago where I compared many interconnects and speaker cables, because people talked about the differences.
I heard none between any cables apart from the MIT with filter boxes.
Now it could be expectation bias, since I know of no mechanism by which cables which are of adequate gauge and properly terminated, can possibly have any influence at audio frequencies, so that is maybe why I heard none.

I have tried 3 different speaker cables with my Devialets. No difference that I can detect. I use whatever interconnects I have which are the length I need. these vary from cheap to very, very expensive (bought on recommendation, not audition, foolishly).

Devialet are first and foremost an engineering company.
Some of their more enthusiastic customers will believe in the hifi "witchcraft" and they will have to be as careful as they can not to alienate them whilst continuing to do things in a technically correct way.

As many of you know I believe that enthusiasts genuinely hear differences which do not exist in hifi equipment in the way that illness can be healed using medication that does not exist (placebo), it is the same science IMHO. It is just as real to the people who believe (but somewhat expensive).

Well I am happy for you and wish I could say the same which would save a lot of time and money . I really don't trust my own ears any longer hence I let my wife say something (I never tell if a did this or that) if she has something to say at all, that is a good lakmustest for me. Plus when my orchestra friends visiting they will tell me this or that about the system, and they are pretty direct and skilled noticing if I changed something from the time before.
However I do believe dev is the most insensitive gear I had to changes, which is good ie more time to enjoy music.

Enjoying a nice 180 gr press with Kiss at the moment (Rock and Roll Over)

/Mike

---

To add to my previous post:

My speaker cables are home brewed GBP 6 / meter (a lot of copper) which saw off some really expensive stuff, so I have some share of 'sense' in my system.

/Mike

[f1eng]

Plus when my orchestra friends visiting they will tell me this or that about the system, and they are pretty direct and skilled noticing if I changed something from the time before.

I am very surprised by this. My wife is a musician by profession and we therefore have lots of friends who are musicians. None of them are interested by hifi and whilst some are impressed by what can be done, now they have heard my system, none feel any of the things I have tried to show make any difference at all!

We have a Steinway Model B in our music room and host Associated Board examinations there. All the musicians show a combination of amazement and shock by the hifi in my room. Only one has been really interested and then extremely impressed by the sound quality, I can reproduce the Steinway fairly convincingly in here (with £15 speaker cables), but all think it an absurd waste of money and space.
Also aural memory is very short. About 15 minutes IIRC. So I take any change which takes longer than 15 minutes to complete, level matched, as an indeterminate test.

I think our friends humour us for our eccentric pastime. Those that don't just look askance ;-)

[Mikeeo]

Great! That just show the diversity of us humans and the peer societies we live in. Great with these professionals directions of interest but a bit surprising with the differences in our social camps, respectively.
I am not sure about I agree with the aural memory I would say it is the opposite for the people I know however these are people flying to Japan just to buy that particular flute, spend weeks in a church to find the right setting for an organ recording.
But I like this a lot, diversity that is, as we never runs out of opinions and subjects for discussion.

I do think that Devialet are the most 'neutral' gear I ever had/Mike

[f1eng]

I do think that Devialet are the most 'neutral' gear I ever had/Mike

100% agree there!

[darthsteph]

Plus when my orchestra friends visiting they will tell me this or that about the system, and they are pretty direct and skilled noticing if I changed something from the time before.

I am very surprised by this. My wife is a musician by profession and we therefore have lots of friends who are musicians. None of them are interested by hifi and whilst some are impressed by what can be done, now they have heard my system, none feel any of the things I have tried to show make any difference at all!

We have a Steinway Model B in our music room and host Associated Board examinations there. All the musicians show a combination of amazement and shock by the hifi in my room. Only one has been really interested and then extremely impressed by the sound quality, I can reproduce the Steinway fairly convincingly in here (with £15 speaker cables), but all think it an absurd waste of money and space.
Also aural memory is very short. About 15 minutes IIRC. So I take any change which takes longer than 15 minutes to complete, level matched, as an indeterminate test.

I think our friends humour us for our eccentric pastime. Those that don't just look askance ;-)

I'm surprised too !!!

I did some tests with my different systems, and always found differences depending on the cables connected to the amp and speakers.

Two interesting experiments :
- With my previous system, I bought some MPC power cords, only because I thought it could be better to have hi-end power cords… but without any test before…! And with Devialet, I thought that I could spare some money with PC and sell them. So, before doing it, I plugged the Dev's with regular PC. And after, only for the fun, I connected the MPC again… And the differences were not subtle… To be sure, I spent 2 / 3 hours plugging the regular and MPC and so on… One time, I thought I connected the MPC, and found that it was flat and lacked of dynamic… I didn't understand and thought that the differences were psychological… And when I checked the back of the Dev's, I saw the regular PC… I did a mistake, and doing this, I did a blind test !

- With the Devialets, I tried to find good speaker cables. At one time, I had 3 different pairs, and asked my parents, visiting me, to hear the different cables. They are not musician, and don't have a HiFi system as it doesn't interest them… So, it was a real blind test for them, as they don't know the different brand of cables tested and their price. And incredible : they recognized the "sound" of each cable (number 1, 2 and 3), and describe the effects of each exactly as I did…!!!